Dr. Erin Hayford [00:00:02]:
So the big question is, we know spontaneous remissions and so called miracle cures exist. We also know they aren't so spontaneous after all. I'm living proof of this. Having cured my quote unquote incurable illness, there's something to how this happens. So how do we, as humans with chronic symptoms, tap into this so called miraculous healing capacity? That is the question, and this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Doctor Erin Hayford, and welcome to the sacred illness podcast.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:00:36]:
Before we begin today's episode, just my standard medical disclaimer.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:00:39]:
This podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:00:44]:
The content should not be considered a.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:00:45]:
Substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:00:49]:
Always consult with a qualified healthcare professional regarding any medical condition concerns. Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Sacred Illness podcast. I'm Doctor Aaron with co host Orianna. Today is part two of a little mini series we're doing about the authentic self. So essentially what we're trying to cover in these episodes is, what is the authentic self? Just general definitions and also those based on other folks, practitioners, etcetera. How do we get away from the authentic self? What does that look like? What, how does that manifest? And how are the different routes that we can get away from who we truly are when we come into this world? And there's a lot of different ways to look at that, to understand how we get away from the authentic self. Different schools of thought, different mechanisms, different coping things that people talk about. So in these, in the last episode and in this episode, we're talking about different archetypes that we can take on as children and also who our parents might take on as parental archetypes, as ways that can, you know, influence the way we show up in the world and therefore get us away from our, in our, in.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:01:57]:
From our authentic selves. So these archetypes are personalities or Personas, so to speak, that are not truly who we are, but they are a response to something. So again, last time we went over the parent archetypes and talked about how parents can show up in the world and what that might look like and how that might influence us and cause us to step away from who we truly are in order to better mesh with who our parents are. Today, we're going to talk about the child archetype, and I think a lot of us are going to relate to a lot of, a lot of these. We all have probably at least one of these that shows up today in our lives, and they're not necessarily, there's not a, there's there isn't a one to one correlation like this parent archetype leads to this child archetype. As we discussed last time, parents can have many different iterations of the archetype show up in their own life. And so same for us with these child archetypes, but we'll talk about where it comes from, how we can develop them, and we'll take it from there. So, Orianna, I'm going to turn this over to you, and again, if you want to tell us where this comes from, and just for reference sake, so they know where we're getting this information from.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:03:07]:
And then we're going to start with the caretaker is the first archetype we're going to talk about today.
Oriana Broderick [00:03:12]:
Okay, so this information in particular is from the book how to do the work by doctor Nicole Lapera. She is the holistic psychologist. She's all over, everywhere, social media and everywhere. She does a lot of great work and she has a lot of great information out there that you can go to to help find yourself. How to do the work is a really great one for exploring your authentic self and what that looks like and getting into those uncomfortable spaces. And the reason why she talks about the archetypes is because it is an avenue to get into what our authentic self is and how to understand that sometimes what we believe our authentic self is is a programmed response based off of the archetypes that we talked about previously, which is parental archetypes. And, you know, our parental, our parents can be our parents and any other caregivers. Like, we have all these support systems growing up.
Oriana Broderick [00:04:15]:
And so it's all of those people, all those people are going to create a space for you to be like, this is how I have to be to get my basic needs of love and all of those things met. So the first child archetype is the caretaker, which usually has codependent dynamics in it. They allows us to gain a sense of identity and self worth, and often it's by neglecting our own needs. So we're often taking care of the people around us. I think I've seen this. I saw this a lot in myself, and I saw it a lot in people who had parents that were emotionally distant or maybe not emotionally supportive. They would constantly be taking care of their parents or taking care of siblings or just always doing some kind of caretaking task in order to get and receive love. And that was what.
Oriana Broderick [00:05:10]:
And so they build their worth off of that the caretaker builds their worth off of. If I can take care of people so if we tie it back to illness and we could potentially see that this archetype, this dynamic, could cause a illness in somebody where they wouldn't be able to take care of their family, they would be chronically fatigued or not be able to get out of bed or whatever. And so that. And then is the message, right, of how can I see my self worth of not having to take care of everybody? Because I've neglected my needs all this time, and now I'm here and can't and people have to take care of me.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:05:46]:
I feel this one is like me. I'm up to 100,000%. I think we could probably spend the entire episode talking about this one because I feel like it's very common. And, I mean, I don't know necessarily why or how we get to that place of kind of putting it on our kids to take care of certain aspects, but it does seem that there is. There's just that common dynamic between parents and kids where we're pushing kids to take care of, even between siblings. Right. And I've been reading a lot about sibling dynamics because I am about to have a second child, and I'm very cognizant of child development because literally so much of this work we do is contingent upon what happens in childhood. And so I'm very acutely aware, maybe to a degree that's almost unhelpful because I'm, like, paranoid.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:06:39]:
Like, I don't want to mess it up, and I know I'm going to in some way, shape or form, but. But there's just so much awareness I have around, you know, milestones and development and, like, how to speak to kids. And, you know, when we do the reprogramming work in. In the work that we do, it's always coming back to these dynamics that we had and these interactions we had and thinking, what did I need instead?
Oriana Broderick [00:07:00]:
Right?
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:07:00]:
So, like, in this caretaker space of, you know, being pushed to take care of mommy or daddy's needs or whatever, like, to act like the. Act like the adult, essentially, in that dynamic. Like, what did I need instead? And between siblings, there's a lot of that, like, well, you're the big brother, so you have to be the responsible one, and he gets to do this. You know what I mean? It's like, well, you're the younger one, so you get to have fits. Or we just put people in roles. And so much of the caretaker, I mean, all of these are technically roles. Like, archetypes are kind of these roles that we take on and play the caretaker feels like a very definable role of, you know, this is who you are, and this is what gives you worth is by you taking care of this person in this way or showing up in this role in this way. And so a lot of what I'm reading about sibling dynamics is about letting people just be themselves.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:07:49]:
You know, like, letting the older child just be. Be who they are. They don't have to be any sort of level of responsibility or, you know, show up differently for their brother's sake or their siblings sake, because that's a. You know, that's not. That's a caretaking role, and that's not necessarily helpful or appropriate. Obviously, there's, like, degrees of that. Like, we. It's not saying, like, you just completely neglect each other and, you know, don't try to help each other out.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:08:14]:
Like, that's a different thing. But it's like, it's saying, like, your worth, your right to be here in this world is not contingent upon how good or how bad that other person is doing. And that was a lot of my programming and continues to be a lot of my programming is. Your worth is contingent upon the response you're getting. So there's a lot of. There's a lot to be said here about being aware of, first of all, of that dynamic, about boundaries that need to be drawn. But more so, I think, than anything else, it's about finding that worth. Right? Like, getting back to that sense of identity and self worth, which is the authentic self.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:08:53]:
A lot of times we hear, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, because I just am so curious how different people think about this, how, you know, people say we are. We are inherently worthy. We come into the world inherently worthy, inherently valuable, and we can lose our connection to that sense of worth through stuff like this, through feeling like my worth is contingent upon XYZ thing, when really it's not right. The worst doesn't change no matter what's happening out here. But I think that's hard for a lot of us to, I don't know, wrap our heads around or to accept because we are so programmed to correlate our worth with an external circumstance. Does that make sense or resonate?
Oriana Broderick [00:09:35]:
Or.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:09:35]:
How do you think about that? Like I said, I'm curious to hear other thoughts on it.
Oriana Broderick [00:09:39]:
I agree with that. To the extent that we are inherently worthy, I think this work is getting us back to those original feelings of coming into this world of that's that I think you've talked about in the last one is that we are our authentic selves, that children know who they are authentically from the moment they come out into the world and they behave a certain way and all of the things that they do. And I think as we. There are so many layers to that. There's so many dynamics to that as far as how discipline comes into your life. You know, we talked about that, too. If you're disciplined in a certain way that makes it feel like your basic needs aren't going to be met, you're automatically getting this message that you're only worthy if you behave this way. And that was a huge family dynamic for us.
Oriana Broderick [00:10:28]:
And this kind of speaks to generational trauma and how these things can come out in a way that doesn't always feel like trauma too, especially taking into consideration what side of the dynamic you're on. So, for example, in my family, a lot of the cousins, so I had an older brother who's ten years older than me, and then all of my cousins were around the same age. We're like four to six years apart, so we're essentially the same ages. There was a lot of family dynamics around who's the best kid, who behaves the best, and that sort of went all the way through our lives to adulthood. So for me, being on the dynamic of having this mom and dad who were very distant emotionally, my mom had lots of addiction issues, and she had severe depression and all sorts of things. So she was very much there in physical form, but absent when it came to the things that I needed. And so I often would find myself taking care of her and feeling responsible for that, to try to get my needs met very young. And then when it came to my other caregivers, my grandma and grandpa, who were the drivers of this, these kids are the best kids, and this is the best way to act and that type of thing.
Oriana Broderick [00:11:47]:
I fell on the other dynamic of look at how good Orianna is doing and look at how great she's raising her son, and, you know, with a lot of that. And so it wasn't in the moments it felt nice and it felt healthy. But then as I started to see it play out in the other members of my family, my cousins who were growing up and wanting to have children and wanting to, you know, get jobs and buy homes and do those things, I started to realize that it wasn't actually a healthy dynamic, because what I had created was this competition with each other that if I can't, if I can't do what she's doing, then I'm not good enough. And it was. And a lot of the conversations would end up that way. Well, I was also the family mediator, therapist, I guess. And so when something was wrong, I would go to those people, specifically my cousins, and be like, what's happening? What's going on? And they'd tell me all this stuff in their life, and they'd be like, I'm never gonna be able to live up to what you're doing.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:12:41]:
Yeah.
Oriana Broderick [00:12:42]:
And then when they started to have kids, I was the first one to have a child. And so when they started to have kids, then it was like we started pitting our kids up against each other where it's like, oh, my gosh, your kid is the cutest, and they're always so nice, and they always behave all the time. And my kids are never going to live up to that. So it trickles down into these places where sometimes it can feel like, oh, I am doing really good because I am getting this validation that I am the best one in the family. But it actually wasn't a healthy dynamic at all. It was continuing to feed that space of worthiness. So what happens if I fall from grace? What happens if I'm not making that amount of money anymore and my child does turn feral and dirty? And, like, what happens if all those things, then I'm inherently not worthy. And so now I'm working and working and working and neglecting my own needs and creating this insane dynamic to keep up this pedestal that I've been put on that I actually didn't choose, it was chosen for me, and I then believed that's who I was and that's how I needed to behave.
Oriana Broderick [00:13:46]:
And if I can't, then I'm not worthy of my family and all of those things which, in theory, sort of came true for me. But what I realized is when it comes to families and you choose to do healing work on yourself, and you choose to say, these are my dynamics, but they don't belong to me. And you start to move into that authentic place, you actually start to realize that the relationships that you had with your family, or anybody for that matter, that falls out of your life were actually not healthy. They were not healthy relationships. Because when you start to act as your authentic self, people who don't want to be in the presence of that actually are wanting you to continue to behave in these unhealthy ways and continue to validate this very unhealthy family dynamic. And that is, in a way, to me, how we continue generational trauma is it almost becomes the culture of the family. And so if you decide, I'm not going to do that anymore, then you are going to get pushback from most of the people who aren't willing to say, these are my dynamics and they don't necessarily belong to me, and I can actually move out of them and do something different. And it ends up being something that is really much more nourishing.
Oriana Broderick [00:14:58]:
It's just that in between, from the program to the authentic self, that's really uncomfortable and can bring up all sorts of things.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:15:06]:
Yeah, I think that's the hardest part of doing the work. And I know that's how doctor Lapera talks about it, too. I think she calls it, like, doing the work or like, finding your, you know, doing the healing work. Being on a healing journey is that it does. It is. It's uncomfortable. And we talk about that a lot, but. But part of what is uncomfortable is the potential for relationships that have always been part of your life to.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:15:28]:
Not always, they don't always have to fall off and go away completely, but, um. But they change, right? Like, that's sort of. That's the inevitability of when you change. When you change what's going on internally, it inevitably changes what's happening externally because you're showing up differently. And that's, I think, the interesting thing about the archetypes, particularly the child archetype, right? Because it's like the parents raise the child, who then develops this archetype, and then there's this expectation that that's how you're showing up in the world. And whether that is in relationship with your parents, with your spouse, or, you know, partner or friends or whomever you are, you are playing this role. And when you start to change that role, you know, people have an expectation that you're going to show up a certain way, but then you start to change it. And it's hard.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:16:16]:
It's hard for everybody because they want you to be who you've always been for them. And, you know, you are wanting to oftentimes maintain some semblance of a connection to them, maybe. Right. But it's just hard. One of the things that's talked about in this healing work is the grief process that we go through, because it is really. It is a loss, right? There's a. There's a dying off of a part of us and a rebirth of something new. And as you said, that rebirth, that new person, which really, it's not a new person.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:16:51]:
It's like it's you who's always been there. It's just letting them out, right? So it's showing up in a. In a way that you maybe never have shown up before, but it's always someone and something that's always been there. But either way it is, you know, it's a shedding process. And there's always going to be grief with that. Even if it's beautiful, positive grief, you know, it still can be very sad and hard. But it is a way that we can stay stuck very easily. It's kind of like toeing that line between the old self and the new self.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:17:20]:
And like I see that in myself where I take on or go back to old behaviors when certain people are around. Because I have not yet figured out how to be in that new self around certain people. And the other side of it for me too, and maybe you've experienced this, is that the new self feels vulnerable, right? Because she is someone who has less armor on and she doesn't have all these layers that's protecting her between the outside world and this more tender, authentic inner self. And we were talking about too, before the recording is when you're really sensitive, obviously you feel a lot more too. So when you're a sensitive person and you're taking off these layers and you're kind of like, here I am. Here, you know, here I am. World that can feel really scary because you. Part of the armor, part of the layers that you put on and part of these archetypes you take on is its protection as well.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:18:16]:
And that's the whole thing I think we need to keep driving home about this authentic self is that the authentic self is who you will and would be if your needs were completely met. As that person we develop and get away from. We develop archetypes and different Personas and different ways of showing up in the world because our needs are not met in that authentic space. And so we have to develop inauthentic ways of showing up, different ways of showing up than we would otherwise in order to get needs met.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:18:49]:
Hi everyone. Doctor Aaron here. So by now you're starting to get an idea of some of what the sacred illness paradigm is all about. The sacred illness paradigm is all about. This question of what is your illness inviting you to become. What is it that lies within each of us that allows some of us to acquire so called spontaneous healing or remissions? And what is the key to unlocking that innate self healing capacity in each and every one of us? The sacred illness. This blueprint is something that I developed as a guide to help you walk through this process step by step to learn how to move deeper and deeper within yourself, to find these layers of dysregulation, of trauma, of limiting beliefs of things that you're holding within your system that are keeping you small, stuck and sick. Ultimately, if we ignore the mind body connection and are not exploring the ways in which our nervous system continues to be dysregulated or in a chronic state of activation and stress, any healing modality that we put into our body from the outside in is going to be less effective, if not effective at all.
Oriana Broderick [00:19:52]:
So if you are currently feeling stuck.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:19:54]:
Lost, confused or disillusioned in your healing journey, feeling like you have tried so many things, you have tried so many modalities, you have worked with so many providers, and you're just not seeing the results you want, know that this is normal. And of course you're not, because this foundational mind body connection is often, if not always, missed in all of these modalities. And just like we can't build a house on top of sand, our healing cannot grow and blossom and be strong and successful if the foundation is not laid first. So rather than doing something different, but similar to everything you have tried before and expecting different results, I encourage you to consider doing something different altogether. This is where I invite you to explore the sacred illness group coaching program. This is a low cost monthly membership option that I have created. It's constantly open, constantly enrolling where you can begin to explore this completely different way of engaging in your health, in your body, in your illness, and in your healing process. What is provided inside this group coaching program is the blueprint that lays the foundation and lays the path out for you to follow, to begin to explore these deeper aspects of health, to truly get at the root of what is causing your illness and from there, allowing all other modalities to blossom so that you can actually start to see the changes and the healing take place in your body that you have been expecting and wanting all along.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:21:15]:
If you're ready and want to learn more, head on over to aurorasomatic.com and at the top of the screen, click on group coaching where you can read all about it and become a member today. I can't wait to see you on the inside. And for now, let's get back to the podcast.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:21:33]:
It's so interesting. Like I think this is something I want to spend some more time thinking about and maybe do a different episode on is how worth really seems to be. Like that core piece, like how worthy we are if we don't feel like the person I just came into this world being gets my needs met immediately are worth is like, the first thing is that is impacted or maybe that maybe our authentic self is our worth. You know, I don't know, there's something there that I, again, I want to kind of work out, but that worth is so, it's so important to feel worthy, you know, like just innately worthy of being in the world. And when we, that inner worth is not, like, really reiterated, like, yes, who you are in your authentic way of showing up is exactly perfect and wonderful and beautiful and, you know, there's nothing you have to do to deserve anything. Love, food, shelter, attention. You know, you just get to have it because you are just an amazing human being. If that doesn't get reflected or taken care of, then immediately our worth becomes, like, put outside of us.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:22:35]:
You know, it gets, like, taken from inside of us and given to something else. And I think that's why it's so hard for us to get back to that innate worthy feeling, because from such a young age, it gets taken out of us and given to something else. Does that make sense? Talking about it? Yeah.
Oriana Broderick [00:22:48]:
Yeah, definitely. I think that that's exactly what happens. I think we have, I think that's part of the human experience, right? Is coming out and learning how to get your needs met. And you kind of know when you're a baby, right, you cry and you, or whatever, and that's how you get your needs met. But then as you get older and you start talking and you start being able to watch how the adults around you are interacting, it's almost like there's something within you that says if I act that way, then that's going to happen. So you start picking up these pieces of these archetypes. Like the next one is the overachiever, and that's just another piece that we pick up to get that need of worthiness met. I want to be seen.
Oriana Broderick [00:23:28]:
I want to be heard in my family dynamic because I'm not, and I'm definitely not if I behave these certain ways. I mean, you have a little one, so you are closer to it than I am having an adult child. But I remember my son acting all sorts of ways when he was little. And if I didn't allow him to act that way, then I could almost see him start to pick up some of these things, you know, like if I can do better in school, then, then I'll, you know, stand out and I'll get my needs met by the people around me, you know, you start to go to school and you have the teachers now that you spend a lot of time with, and there's the kids that get in trouble and get yelled at all the time. And then if you're a sensitive, an extra sensitive kid, then you're going to see these teachers yelling at the students and you're going to be like, why do I want to be like that? And I don't want to get yelled at like that. So how can I, what can I do? What steps can I take to not have that happen? And so that would be something like where the overachiever would come out is it's about achievement. If I can do, if I can be the best in class, if I can be the smartest, not only are you probably getting accolades at home, maybe, but you're also getting them from your teacher because then you're not a problem in the classroom.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:24:38]:
Exactly.
Oriana Broderick [00:24:39]:
So there's so much worth tied one to that. Two, it's interesting how as children, it's almost like we have this very beautiful ability to adapt to our environments. And I think that that can also be an avenue to that radical acceptance piece that we talk about in our work as well is it is really beautiful that we're able to do that. Now. How can we deconstruct that and get back to maybe the little kid that did want to act out in class? Because sometimes you do, right? Like you just want to get up out of your seat and run around and scream. My son has a girlfriend who has a little boy, and they went out to eat, and, you know, when you're out eating, your parents, like, sit down, eat your food, you know, and they're telling you all these things that you don't necessarily want to do. And so I think he doesn't have children. This is her child.
Oriana Broderick [00:25:36]:
And he was watching all this energy get built up in him. And then when they went outside, the little boy walked to the back of the car and just was like. And just started yelling. And his mom was like, all right, did you get it all out? Are you ready to go? And he goes, no, I think there's more in there. And he's like four, and he's like four years old. So he knew innately what he needed to do. And by allowing him to do that, even though there are people around or whatever it is, you allow your children to be their authentic self in those moments. And so it's like they can start to hold on to some of these worthy pieces of them versus if you didn't have that, like, someone like me, if I would have done something like that, I probably would have gotten spanked.
Oriana Broderick [00:26:15]:
So it just continues to diminish your worth. And so I think you can even see levels of how we attach to these archetypes. As a result, we can be very much, like you said, 1000% you were the caretaker growing up, and 1000% I was the overachiever mixed with the caretaker. And I was so attached to that identity because I didn't ever have those. I had very little moments where it was like, it's okay to be you. It's okay to be who you want to be in these moments. And so I think that that is something to explore within worthiness, too, because I'm sure that there's levels of it that we feel sometimes we have no. We feel like there's no worthiness, especially if we get sick and we.
Oriana Broderick [00:26:57]:
We can't fulfill these things that we think make us worthy. And so what is the level of that? I think finding that level is a good place to start as far as, you know, how much, maybe not how much work you have to do, but how much more love and care you have to give that little version of you. It's like, it's okay. It's okay to run outside and yell. Now, as an adult, that was something that I saw somewhere that it was like, what if we did that? You know, there was a video of little kids running around just making noise and doing, you know, like, exerting energy out of their body. That is maybe that is getting trapped in there. What if we did that as an adult? If we just ran, you know, went outside like, we were overwhelmed in a story, we went outside and did a little dance, we would probably feel better instantly. But there are so many dynamics associated with that, you know, and it all.
Oriana Broderick [00:27:44]:
I'm. You're so right that it all ties back to worthiness, because even if you think about being embarrassed in front of somebody, it ties back to not being worthy. I'm not worthy of behaving this way. If I behave this way, people are going to think I'm weird and I'm not going to be accepted. And, you know, all of these other things come up, but it definitely is a core place of worthiness, for sure.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:28:06]:
Yeah. And I think it's. I think there's a worth. A safety, worth connection in there, right? Like, you are worthy of what makes you safe or keeps you. Or, like, if something makes you and keeps you safe, then that, I don't know. There's something, again, like, I. Like, my brain is, like, trying to work all this out as we're talking because it feels like, you know, we've talked about these things, but it feels like there's this deeper layer here for us to explore. But essentially, yeah, I mean, just to take it to, like, the science y side of things for a minute.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:28:32]:
We are wired for survival, right? Like, that is our nervous system's number one job or number one priority is to keep us safe. And so anything that is marked as a threat and a threat is your needs are not going to be met, which means your survival is threatened. Needs are, you know, we need. We need love, we need safety, we need connection, we need food, we need shelter. As kids, there's other needs that we'll talk about at a. Some other point, but so if we are not getting those needs met, that is flagged as a threat in our system, and our nervous system is going to become activated to say, what do we need to do to get that need met? Do we act differently? Do we run away from home? Do we, you know, like, how do we get that need? And of course, the younger we are, the less capable of meeting that need. We are. So that's why childhood is so, so, so huge in pro.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:29:22]:
You know, I feel like people are like, oh, we're always talking about childhood and blaming on childhood. Well, yeah. Like, that is where all this programming mostly happens. And it's not always parents, as we talked about last time, too, culture, society, friends, like, all the major things we come into contact with is going to program us. But especially in those youngest, most vulnerable years of our lives, the people who were responsible for caregiving, for taking care of us, for meeting our needs, primarily, are the ones who are going to have the biggest influence on our subconscious programming. And so I wrote down to, we spend a lot of time in these roles. I think, first of all, to be safe, right? Because we're trying to get our needs met. So we are taking on these archetypes and taking on these Personas in order to get those needs, methods to validate our worth or to feel worthy or to feel taken care of.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:30:16]:
And also, it feels like there's a lot of energy behind these archetypes in avoiding unwanted attention. So especially if there's punishment involved in some way, shape or form. Again, feeling uncomfortable is a threat. We don't want to feel uncomfortable. We don't want to feel like someone is mad at us. We don't want the relationship to be threatened, because if the relationship is threatened, then that threatens our safety, that threatens our connection to the person who is going to potentially, you know, be feeding us and giving us shelter. And so we're trying to avoid. We're trying to avoid things.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:30:49]:
That's what these. These are coping mechanisms, and they're always to help us show up in a way to avoid unwanted attention or behavior. So, yeah, so the overachiever is about avoiding, you know, avoiding failure or avoiding getting in trouble or avoiding being less than even when you were talking about you and your cousins, right? Like, that's an overachiever, obviously, situation. It's like that one up. Like trying to constantly be the better, whatever. And in comparison, going back to the sibling stuff I've been reading about, they talk about how when we are doing that comparison, obviously when we compare someone to someone else, there's a natural competition that is instilled in us. And so that is, again, we're not honoring the authenticity version of every individual human. Like, yeah, Orianna is really good at this, and this person's really good at this and not so much at that, but that's okay because that's not who they are, right? There's not this honoring of who you are as an individual.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:31:43]:
It's almost like this is the. There's like a level playing field that everyone has to be at this level. And if you're not, then you're bad or you're not worthy or you're not good enough. And so it's really like, I think a lot of so much of our, this is me going philosophical on us, but there's so much in our culture and society that's about one size fits all. You have to have this kind of income and have this kind of family and do this kind of thing and have that kind of car. It's this constant keeping up with the Joneses culture that we live in. And if you're not at that level functioning here, making this money, then you are somehow not worthy or, I don't know, you're not just not a good person or whatever the belief is. So we really are not this culture of honoring individuality and celebrating differences and celebrating uniqueness and that some people are going to show up really good in this department and not so good in that department, and that's okay.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:32:38]:
Like, we don't allow for people to just not be good at something and just to not have a skill set or have, you know, we don't make space for that. And so it creates this very inauthentic dynamic that, you know, we all are trying to, like, play up in and compensate for in some way, shape, or form. So, yeah, so that. So the overachiever makes sense. Like, we talked about that one and then the underachiever. And I was kind of thinking that, like, obviously, there's. We talked about this last time, too, with parents, how kids can react either by, like, over compensating, and then there's some of us who just, like, undercompensate and fall off the map. So will you talk to us about the underachiever and how that shows up?
Oriana Broderick [00:33:16]:
So I think that I have a really good example of this that I can use from my personal life. And before I say that, just both of these, the overachiever and underachiever. So my family dynamic, being a person that comes from a family of people of color, I can deconstruct that down to that behavior. The reason we were put up against each other and those things happened. I saw both of these happen in my cousins. I was the overachiever. There were a couple of other others who wanted to be overachievers as well. And then there were a couple that went the opposite direction of being an underachiever.
Oriana Broderick [00:33:52]:
And I think that having grandparents that grew up in the era of where racism was significant, it was so significant in my grandparents life that when my grandma and grandpa bought a house, they wouldn't allow my grandpa to be there. So my grandma is also a person of color, but she's lighter skinned. So it made this real estate agent feel more comfortable than having my grandfather there, who is very much indigenous. He has very dark skin. He's Navajo. He came from a reservation, and so he was very much that. And so they wouldn't allow him to be there for any of the clothing or any of the things associated with that. And that was a very significant story for us growing up.
Oriana Broderick [00:34:31]:
And then my dad did a lot of work with racism in the workplace and coexisting in the workplace as a unit and not looking at the skin color. And so as a result of that, I grew up in this environment with two families that were significant in my life that were given that message. And that was the message that they continued to give. They were given that message young, and now they were giving it to us that as people of color, we have to do better. We have to be better. We have to work harder. We have to do all of these things to be seen in society. So that's just an example of how it's not just our parents.
Oriana Broderick [00:35:12]:
It very much is other layers as society, we create these things in these spaces through not only things like racism and things like that, but marketing and consumerism and all of these things that are related to that, that only continue to almost hammer home, that we have to be. We have to fit in one of these things. We have to be the overachiever. And then, of course, the underachiever isn't as accepted. It's almost like the, if you're an underachiever, you're even more of a black sheep in society because you're not doing anything. And so, in my opinion, from the nervous system piece, it's like the freeze you're in. Freeze you. You withdraw all the way back.
Oriana Broderick [00:35:58]:
And so my personal experience being a stage parent and pushing my son to be better from what I thought was a place of love, but it was just me continuing on with this unhealthy dynamic that came from my family, I just thought it was different because I was pushing him in different ways. I thought I was doing it from a place where I saw all of this potential in him. And so I was pushing him from that place where I felt like my family was not pushing me in a place of my potential, but versus. This is just what you're really good at. And so that was just what I had to be good at, whether I thought I was or not. And so then instead of him becoming an overachiever, he became an underachiever. He did really well all through school, and he was really smart. He was, you know, always given accolades about how smart he was by everyone in his school and just everybody that he ever met.
Oriana Broderick [00:36:50]:
And then high school hit, and after his freshman year, it was like he wasn't going to class, he wasn't doing his work. He was, you know, doing all of the things that I didn't want him to do because I didn't. That was what I was trying to prevent is from him going in that direction of, you know, now I'm afraid of failure, so I'm going to try to be invisible, basically, is what the underachiever is. And so now he's in his twenties, and he's trying to, I wouldn't say dig himself out of that hole, but he's trying to understand that it's okay. Like, part of his human design is to fail. You're supposed to fail. You're supposed to do lots and lots and lots and lots of things until you figure out what really is your niche, what really you enjoy, and what really you love and where you can put all of that energy in. That creates the energy for society.
Oriana Broderick [00:37:44]:
And so he's now learning these things about himself and trying to understand why he chose to be an underachiever. And now that he has another option, that he doesn't have to be invisible, that all of these qualities that he had that I was trying to bring out in him just in an unhealthy way, he's learning for himself, and he's seeing that he actually can behave in all these authentic ways. And people are so going to love him, and he's still going to get all of the things that I thought he was going to get if I pushed him versus just allowing it to unfold naturally. Because now I see, had I just let it unfold naturally, he probably would have been perfectly fine because there was no need for that. He already had those things innately. And so I think that's something that we can do as parents that isn't necessarily, like, a toxic trait or a behavior that would cause us not to speak to our parents or something like that. You know, it's not an abusive trait. It just is a place where we want our children to do so well.
Oriana Broderick [00:38:45]:
And we believe that our children, that we can see these abilities in our children, and we believe somehow they don't see them in themselves. And so we start pushing them in this direction. We're like, see, look how good you are at this CCC. And rather than just letting them be little people and letting. And actually being guides for them versus feeling like we have to have some control over what they're doing.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:39:07]:
Totally. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's such an important thing. You said how his natural, like, his design for those who are not familiar with human design, check it out.
Oriana Broderick [00:39:17]:
Right.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:39:19]:
His design is to fail. Right. And so it's such an interesting thing to think about that I think when we think about, like, authenticity or the way we're, quote unquote supposed to be, we have only these expectations of positive, good forward momentum. What? You know what I mean? Like, it's just like, well, if I'm really being authentic, everything's perfect. And it's. That's actually not true. You know, if we are being authentic, we are more apt to. And I mean, maybe not more apt, but we're going to feel more feelings, we're going to be more uncomfortable.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:39:48]:
We're going to, you know, come up against things or, like, come up against edges or maybe fail more or whatever, because we're. We're more. Being more authentic means being more human. And being human is this imperfect way of you know, we're. We are imperfect beings, and it's messy and it's beautiful and it's chaotic and it's, you know, it's terrible and it's wonderful. It's all the things. And so when we are more authentic, we are, you know, we're going to be on all of these different spectrums of how we show up and. Yeah, and so, so depending on who we are, that might mean making more mistakes, just inherently and innately, because that's part of how we are.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:40:24]:
That's how we show up in the world, and that's how we find our. Find our steps and find our journey. Some of us might be more inclined to, like, have a more straightforward path. Whatever. I think it's. It is about, again, taking it back to celebrating the person for exactly as they are and making that space for them to blossom and show up exactly as they are without applying those, again, external rules and thoughts of, like, oh, but failure. You're not really supposed to be failing. So, like, how do we fix that? You know? Um, you know, obviously, like, talking to someone about why something went off track or, like, what do you think about that? Or how are you feeling? And, you know, what did you learn? Or whatever, like, there's.
Oriana Broderick [00:41:02]:
There.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:41:02]:
It's not like, just let them fail and go into a pit of despair, you know, but it's about having that be a natural, normal conversation without pathologizing it. Because then when we start to make things wrong or bad or just whatever, that's when we start to make that association in our brain of, oh, gosh, that's bad. Which means, you know, I'm not going to get my need met or I'm going to be not loved or I'm going to be shunned, or I'm just a weird person. You know, we don't want to feel outside of community. That is at the core, you know, community connection is, I would say, like, the basic need of any animal. Right? Animals. We, even as humans, we have to have community to survive and to thrive. And so that disconnect from community is one of the most painful and scary things that can be threatened, you know, when we're.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:41:50]:
When we're facing challenges. And so if we are facing a challenge or if we're facing a failure or facing some sort of discomfort in our bodies or whatever it is, and we are further ostracized for it, you know, that's a very distressing thing. And it can lead to either that total shutdown like the underachiever and this is, again, depression, right? Where we just have this total shutdown and total closing out that can happen. Or some people compensate and try to go overboard, but it says just the notes that you sent me to, to look at that, too. They take themselves out of the emotional game before it's ever played. This is the underachiever. Like, I'm not even going to put myself out there to risk, you know, losing something or having, you know, having my emotions seen and hurt and not met or something like that. So it's just like, I stay small, I stay invisible.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:42:40]:
I gain nothing. I lose nothing. You know, I. And maybe I'll get my needs met by doing that. And I was thinking, too, as you were talking, how that's. That's kind of my mo. Like, I'm someone who, when I feel, um, when I'm not, like, meeting the needs, like, to go back to the caretaker, like, if I'm not meeting the needs, that I tend to move into an underachiever space where it's just, like, all or nothing. Like, either I'm totally doing my job and everyone's happy and everything's satisfied, or I'm just going to shut down because I'm like, this is impossible.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:43:11]:
I can't do it. So, you know, it's like powering off a robot. Like, I just shut down. And it's interesting for me personally, and maybe some of you listening can relate to this. When I'm in that underachiever space or in that shutdown space in general, I have a hard time reclaiming self worth because it feels so much like something that has to be given to me, I think. I don't know if it's different for folks who are more on that overachiever side. Maybe it's just true for all of us, I don't know. But people who have that energy of, I'm going to go get it and I'm going to prove it.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:43:44]:
I don't have that energy. I have this.
Oriana Broderick [00:43:46]:
Oh, crap.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:43:46]:
Okay, it's not working. I'm shutting down. I'll never have it. It's a very lack mindset. And so I have found it's really hard. Like, I'm really working right now on this dynamic of trying to really stand in my inherent worth. And I'm really struggling with this idea that, like, I can just have it for myself and I can maintain it and I can stay in relationship with it, and it can be completely unaffected or unaltered by external things because for me, it is so, so, so tied to external things. Does that ring true for you, or how does that resonate with you, if at all?
Oriana Broderick [00:44:22]:
So, of course, being on the overachiever side, it's totally different for me. But having someone close to me that's an underachiever. I can see almost how when he gets to that space, how he will pull in things that are giving him the message of not being worthy. So there was this one girl that really liked him, and they were. This is how I watched these dynamics play out in a lot of people, is through relationships, watching them get into new relationships and then the dynamics that form and then what happens after that. So he really liked her. She really liked him, but she didn't want a relationship. But he kept chasing this and chasing this, although he was getting this message that he wasn't worthy enough to have a relationship with her, regardless of how much he liked her, regardless of what he did for her.
Oriana Broderick [00:45:09]:
And so I actually had a conversation with him about what is it about that dynamic that is giving. There's something being met there. Like, even if it doesn't feel like something's being met, something is being met. And we were able to take it all the way down to that worthiness of he is having a hard time really stepping into that. I am innately worthy, regardless of the way people around me are behaving, because everyone has their own stuff. And so we. It came down to him actually understanding that he's pulling in these people that give him this continued validation that he's not worthy in some way. And so he's realizing that he's constantly pulling out something external to show him that he's worthy.
Oriana Broderick [00:45:57]:
So if it doesn't work out, see, I told you I'm not worthy. It's that law of attraction kind of thing, where if we're in an imbalanced place and we're in a place where we have this deep belief that we're unworthy, it's almost as though we keep attracting things to us that are going to continue to make us believe that until we decide to change our mind and say, you know what? No, I am innately worthy. That was just something that happened with that, or this didn't work out because it was in my best interest. If we're not willing to say this is actually not my truth, then it's just going to keep happening over and over again. Because that's how things work for us, is whatever we believe is what we're going to see out in the world, right?
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:46:41]:
Totally. And speaking of, like, thinking of the relationship of your son, you know, and just in general, these patterns that repeat, that repeat themselves, you know, if there are. If there's, like, why do I keep attracting the same person? Or why does, you know, why can't I find the right relationship? Or. So this is, you know, we talk a lot about triggers and things that are uncomfortable. Those are the. Those are the places where it's telling you, you know, some programming is being picked at. You know, there's something in. In you that has been programmed to behave a certain way, to show up in the world in a certain way and that, you know, there's a cause and effect there.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:47:15]:
When you act a certain way and show up a certain way, it's going to bring in certain people who are responding to that and, you know, want that or are attracted to that or are okay with that or whatever. Whatever that is. And so I was thinking about Lacey. I'm big on Lacey Phillips. She does a lot of really amazing work with neural reprogramming and kind of bringing in manifestation those sorts of things. She's part of the company to be magnetic for people who are not familiar with her. But she talks about, and I agree because I see it in my own life and in the people I work with. The things that we have in our lives that are just easily part of our lives are the things that we feel worthy of.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:47:55]:
Know, they were things that were modeled for us. They were things that we were made to feel worthy of having in our own lives. And then, on the contrary, the things that do not come into our lives or that are not showing up. And again, contingent upon, obviously, societal and political and socioeconomic, you know, there's a lot of things, but I think there's.
Oriana Broderick [00:48:11]:
It's.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:48:12]:
It gets a little muddy because I think there's always layers of, like, yes, the reality is that minimum wage is not enough. It's not a living wage. And there's, you know, there's not. There's not certain things in place that are going to just. You can't just do the system. You know, you can't just, like, be in the system and it's not going to work. Right. And I think there's people who are obviously, like, outside of the system and somehow finding very abundant, successful, happy, fulfilling lives.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:48:38]:
And so I think the thing is, is there's nothing different between them and us, right? There's nothing inherently different between any of us. It comes down to what were we shown in childhood? What did we believe we were worthy and capable of? And how does that, you know, how do we then show up in the world and kind of find the ways to pull that in. You know, again, if we are thinking the way that I show up in the world is I have to do this and I have to get a job and I have to, you know, then we're going to be in a system that is not conducive for that kind of life. And so, you know, I'm part of the system or I'm part of this world. And I can see how very easily, like, if I were to, God forbid, lose my work for some reason and have to go back to a job, like a nine to five job, yeah, I would, I would struggle. I would have to have five jobs just like everyone else. I'd probably lose my house. We'd have to get rid of our car.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:49:26]:
You know, there'd be so many things I'd have to give up. And I think, again, it comes into this space of me being in touch with my authentic self and realizing I, you know, when I'm in touch with that person, there's a different energy and there's a different motivation and there's a different way of looking at the world. And I think part of this is like, opening people's minds and eyes to, like, this doesn't have to be the way this, this track, this path that you've been shown that you're worthy of, that is the norm, is the only way. You know, we have to open our eyes up and see that we are all coming from that same place of worthiness. And we have to just be able to, I guess, think outside the box in that way or like, you know, deconstruct the systems that surround us. And this comes back to healthcare as well. And that's the whole, that's the whole foundation of our work is kind of deconstructing the medical paradigm and saying, your life is not destined to have this illness in it forever just because that's what you've been told. You know, you can dream differently and you can have a different life if you are willing to shift your mindset and to have a different way of being in relationship with your body and have that more, you know, that more authentic connection with who you are, like, getting back in touch with, that is what frees.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:50:41]:
Frees you up to release these layers of illness that are manifesting. Because essentially, illness is a big sign pointing in and saying, you're off track, you're off track, you're off track, get back on track. And so it's very easy for us to blame external circumstances. And again, there are systemic things in place that is going to take a lot of us to shift, and they are just naturally oppressive and barriers for people, especially folks of color. And the other side of that too is there are things still within our power that are, you know, and within our worth if we can step into that, that we can start to claim and make traction on, you know, if we are capable and willing to kind of open our mind to that different way of thinking about things. So, yeah, I agree.
Oriana Broderick [00:51:29]:
I definitely agree with that for sure. I think that the systems themselves, just like the healthcare system and what we're teaching, I think the systems themselves can be an opportunity for us, almost showing us at this point and where we're at, how to step out and be our authentic self and to create something new and not feel like we have to do exactly the same thing that our parents were doing and our grandparents were doing that. It doesn't have to be like that. It's. I feel like all this stuff is coming to this head because it's really asking people on a collective level to step out of their comfort zones, step out of these programming, step out of all of this stuff that we have thought in the past is the appropriate way to behave. And I think the reason why we're seeing it significantly in our younger people in that behavior is because right now, in this moment, we haven't fully come in. There isn't enough of us that have fully come in and said, okay, this is how we're going to help these young people be their authentic self. We're going to show them that it's okay, that you don't want to do that, you don't have to freeze up, you don't have to go into anxious or depression.
Oriana Broderick [00:52:32]:
We can, you know, you can move in the way that you want to. And that that's okay. They're just, I think this is like that grassroots kind of thing, and we're doing it with healthcare, but I think it's only going to develop into these spaces where we're learning how to be our authentic selves, we're learning how to do things that we really want to do and that we're worthy of that. You know, kind of, like you said, there's a systemic issue and there's some oppressive things that happen that stop us from believing those things. And I think, I think it's going to change. I think it has to change. But I think we have to be willing to do, to do the work.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:53:07]:
Like doctor Lapaire says, bringing it back. Yeah. And I think the other way to think of it, too is what our systems, if not beliefs, that came from people, you know, like we create, like everything we see around us are things that we've created. They're all human instructions. And so there's like the antidote or the way to go against it is to believe a different thing, to start telling a different story. And the other side of it, too, or a part of it too, is that coming back to that community and that connection. Right. Like bringing it back to we need each other.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:53:39]:
We need to be in relationship with one another and we need to support each other and love each other exactly as we are. There's no reason we can't coexist and live, you know, live with each other in this way that is supportive and, you know, constructive versus individualistic and deconstructive, which is the world that we live in right now. The further we get away from each other and accepting the ways in which everyone shows up in the world and we have this competition, like striving for the top way of being in the world like that. Again, that's not honoring the individual, the individual on a collective level.
Oriana Broderick [00:54:16]:
Thanks so much for tuning in to another episode of the Sacred Illness podcast. If you find this information shared here, inspirational and educational, please share it with those you think would benefit from this work. To take this work deeper yourself, check out our website, www.aurorasomatic.com, where you can explore our coaching, community and course options. And don't forget to subscribe to this channel where new content is coming out all the time. Time intended to inspire, awaken, and help you deepen your relationship with yourself, your.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:54:45]:
Life and your world. We'll see you next time. Our.
