Dr. Erin Hayford [00:00:02]:
So the big question is, we know spontaneous remissions and so called miracle cures exist. We also know they aren't so spontaneous after all.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:00:12]:
I'm living proof of this.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:00:13]:
Having cured my quote unquote incurable illness, there's something to how this happens. So how do we, as humans with chronic symptoms, tap into this so called miraculous healing capacity? That is the question, and this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Doctor Erin Hayford, and welcome to the sacred illness podcast. Before we begin today's episode, just my standard medical disclaimer. This podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only. The content should not be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always consult with a qualified healthcare professional.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:00:51]:
Regarding any medical condition concerns.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:00:55]:
Doctor Erin here. Welcome to our newest episode of the Sacred Illness podcast. So this podcast is a continuation of episodes 13 and 14, where we started talking about the authentic self. Episode 13, we delved into the initial definition of the authentic self, and then we started talking about parental archetypes and how the certain roles and ways our parents showed up or our caregivers showed up influenced us as children. In episode 14, we started looking at child archetypes. So these are the Personas, the personalities, the outward projections that we took on the ways in which we started to show up in the world in order to be safe and to get our needs met. This is the part two to the child archetypes. So we're going to jump right in with the next archetype.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:01:41]:
I hope you enjoy. And if you haven't yet, go back and watch those first two episodes so that you know what we're talking about in this one. Enjoy.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:01:50]:
The next archetype is the rescuer protector, which I think is also familiar to me, and maybe similar to the caretaker in some way, too. But what can you tell us about that child archetype?
Oriana Broderick [00:02:03]:
So this one ferociously attempts to rescue those around them in an attempt to heal from their own vulnerability, especially in childhood. Views others as helpless and capable, dependent, and derives their love and self worth from being in a position of power. Believes that the only way to receive love is to help others by focusing on their wants and needs and helping to solve their problems.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:02:22]:
What I want to encourage and people who are listening is how do these roles show up in your life? Do they show up in your life? Because there's not. It doesn't innately mean that it's inauthentic. 100%, you know, that you're showing up in the rescuer role or the caretaker role, what I have seen in my own life, and maybe this resonates with you too, is that, and I think I said this in the last episode, these archetypes seem to pull out things that are innately natural in us. Like, just like what you were saying about your son, how failure is part of his learning and his natural, authentic way of showing up in the world. So him moving into that underachiever space actually wasn't super inauthentic. It was just like to an extreme degree because it was like a compensation. And, you know, for me, I was thinking how I have, you know, probably I'm a blend of the caretaker rescuer, you know, and that is in me as someone who is able to see things in people and see patterns and see areas where I can help them or they need help or they need to change or grow or that's kind of my healthcare brain. And so I have that inherent gift, right, of talking to people and understanding their story and being like, this is what's going on.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:03:31]:
But it got capitalized on and became pathological, I guess you could say for me as a kid, because of how much it was like, that got inflated. Like, oh, that is your total worth. Like, you have to be that person all the time and it has to show up all the time and there's no other way that you can show up or else you're just not a worthy person. And it's almost like you get that innate gift gets taken from you and made into some worth exchange of capitalism, right? It's like, have this gift, you have to monetize it or else you're worthless. And then you don't get to own it. You don't get to just inherently have that. And also you don't get to be in relationship with it in the way that it would naturally show up in your body if it wasn't contingent upon the approval of someone else. So, like, you know, as you know, for me professionally and personally, I'm doing this dance between how much I want to show up to work and how much I need to rest and take care of myself and take breaks and do self care.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:04:33]:
Like, go out inside and just shut my brain off and not worry about other people, right? Like, that's a hard thing for me to start to rein back in because again, worth is so tied up with, am I making people? Am I satisfying them? Are they happy? Are they getting what they need from me? And so I think that's part of, again, for those of you listening, is to not think of like, oh, my gosh, I'm this caretaker type. Just identifying these archetypes as there might be part of this archetype that is my authentic self and so part of and maybe not right. It might be completely constructed, maybe not. But I think for the most part, there's probably some element of authenticity in there. And that's why we fall into certain archetype roles, because there's a natural, like, it already feels natural to us to be that way. So. But it's finding, like, what level of interaction with this archetype is healthy for me and is authentic to me and resonates and brings me life? And then where's that line where it starts to suck out my energy and feel inauthentic and burn me out and cause resentment and bitterness or, you know, like, what are your red flags that are pointing to the fact that you've crossed the line somewhere and that innate, authentic part of you is now showing up in a more, again, for lack of a better word, kind of pathological way?
Oriana Broderick [00:05:45]:
I think that's a really good way to put it because I think often when we're doing this work, we find all of these things. And it almost, in the beginning, I feel like, for me, it almost like, makes you feel like how much you have wrong that you have to do and versus being able to look at it from a much healthier place. This is absolutely normal, and it's normal for us to go through these stages of things when we didn't have the things that we needed growing up. And I think we talked about it with the parent archetypes. It's not because our parents were inherently bad and they were, you know, horrible and they didn't want to show up in whatever ways. You know, I, having lost my mom so early in life, seeing. Being able to see that, it was easier for me to see it with her than it has been to see with my dad, who's still alive. Because I realized that everything that she went through in her life didn't create a person who didn't want to be there for her children.
Oriana Broderick [00:06:41]:
It just created a person who actually wasn't capable of being there for her children because of how deeply she got into some of these roles and some of these archetypes and then allowed it to. Instead of saying, this isn't me, I can be someone different, she almost then absorbs the role that she. That she took when she started having physical stuff, you know, severe depression, she took on that role as being the depressed person. And so I think that's where those layers of understanding where you are in this space can be really helpful, because it also requires us to be radically honest with ourselves. Being a caretaker is not an inherently bad situation, can be very good. It can actually create a really great space for you to be abundant in work and whatever. And maybe not. Maybe it's just something that you want to do.
Oriana Broderick [00:07:36]:
I mean, I know a woman here that has nine children, and she loves being a mom. She loves being a mom of all nine of her kids. So just how different we are. And then being able to use some of those things like, she is a caretaker. But does it then coexist with a codependent dynamic? Maybe not. And so if it doesn't, then it's just innately part of the wonderful gift that she was given. Authentically, hers is to, you know, care for little beings and help them grow up.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:08:06]:
I think that's a great example. It makes me think of the midwife I had for my first kid. She's just. She's like the mom archetype. You know, she's just this natural. Like, she felt like my mom when she was taking care of me when I was pregnant. And she just exudes this, like, loving, like, present caretaking, you know, role, and at the same time be like, these are my office hours, and you can't contact me after that. You know what I mean? Like, she has, like, really good boundaries, but when you're with her, you just feel cared for.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:08:34]:
And so, yeah, like, I think that's part of it, too, is. And that this is where it comes back to what we were saying about, like, really honoring our. Our individuality. And like you said perfectly, like, she has nine kids. You can't imagine that. But for her, that's. That just goes to show her archetype type, you know, like, or her Persona, her authentic self is to be that person, and it obviously shows up differently for you. And that's okay.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:08:56]:
Right? And I think that's part of it, is, like, it's okay. We can be different. We. We are different. We need to be different. The way that. To think about this is that onion layer analogy. Our authentic self is the core.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:09:07]:
And then every time we add on a different Persona or different way of showing up in our lives, it's like adding a layer to an onion. And that outermost layer is the personality. That's how we currently are showing up in the world. Know, separate. It's a separation from that authentic self. And that that's kind of. We identify with that person. We think of that as this is who I am.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:09:27]:
This is me. This is how I show up in the world. We identify with that outermost layer. And so we identify with whatever those archetypes are as self until we start to see them for what they are. And again, kind of find that, that space between how much of this is really me and how much of this is Persona and personality and how do I shed that part of it. And it can be very hard if we identify with something so strongly because it is so strongly tied to getting a need met still in adulthood that makes it that push pull becomes very challenging. Like we were saying at the very beginning, this grieving process, when we start to shed these layers that we've really identified with or feel very strongly that we have to keep around in order to get needs metal, it feels very vulnerable and it can feel very scary. And we see that a lot, you and I in this work we do with illness where, you know, a lot of folks are not a lot, but people sometimes need to feel sick because it is the way that they feel.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:10:27]:
They get the attention that they never got as a kid. So that's a whole other conversation for a different time. But I was thinking about, I think this idea came up with the rescuer specifically about how it's hard to let go of certain roles because that rescuer, it's when you're trying to rescue someone, like you don't want to let them drown, you know? And so I think it's really hard for that Persona in particular to let go, literally and figuratively, because you see the person you're trying to rescue is still struggling. And so that's a really hard one to step back from and let go of and find that boundary of saying like, they still need help, but I can't be the one to get them there. And I think that does show up a lot in healthcare as well for some people who are drawn to healthcare of like, I'm going to save everyone and I'm going to fix all the problems and it can lead to like a kind of a codependent type relationship. And again, thinking about that law of attraction, if you are someone who has a lot of people in your life that need to be rescued, that seemingly have endless problems that are just nonstop, never seem to have an answer or a solution, then you might be the rescuer, right? Because again, we're attracting in how we are showing up in the world is going to pull in that person who needs or wants that attention or whatever that is. So then we have the life of the party. Who is this person?
Oriana Broderick [00:11:48]:
So this person is my husband. But this is the always happy, cheerful, comedic person who never shows pain, weakness or vulnerability. It's likely that this inner child was shamed for their emotional state. Believes the only way to feel okay and receive love is to make sure that everyone around them is happy. And, yeah, so, I mean, I am not this person. I am the furthest from this person, but my husband is very much this person. So it is interesting to me that as an overachiever, kind of caretaker protector, that I chose a partner that is the life of the party. And, I mean, he's obviously changed as he's gotten older and done his own work.
Oriana Broderick [00:12:28]:
But I very much saw that in him when we first met very young. And then those are always the stories of him as a child as he was, you know, always doing something funny and always acting out and always making everybody laugh. And, you know, and then as he started to do his work and deconstruct it, he very much saw that, you know, there was a lot of shame around emotions. And then not only was there a lot of shame for him around emotions, but there weren't anybody around that was showing many emotions other than anger. And then they would shame themselves for being that way and couldn't show up for anything else. So if you were upset and you were crying, there was always some excuse, you know, like, I'm upset because somebody's behaving mean to me. Well, that's just the way that they are. That's just the way those people are.
Oriana Broderick [00:13:19]:
Don't worry about it. Instead of validating the fact that it's okay to be upset about that is, I think it's. This one is the most interesting to me because it's interesting to me how someone can be shamed for their emotions, can be almost shut down from their emotions and disconnected from them. And the reaction to that, to get their needs met to survive would be to make everyone happy and to be the life of the party. Like, that's such a extreme for me for some reason. Maybe not for listeners or even for you, may not resonate with that, but it does feel very extreme to me. And I know another person that is like this where you can tell that they've had a lot of trauma in their life and they've had a lot of things go on with them, but they're so funny and they're always making everybody laugh. And it is like it almost allows them to be seen, but not really at the same time.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:14:16]:
Yes, I agree. Because, again, my compensatory reaction is to shut down. So to, like, go the other way in such a big way, too, because it's such an attention drawing kind of Persona. Like, for me, I just can't fathom it. But again, you know, that just goes to show how differently these things can manifest for us. But, yeah, I know several people who are this way. I used to date someone who was this way, and I think the hard thing is that they are so fun. They are so fun, and everyone wants them around, you know? And so, again, speaking of this challenge, in letting go of these layers or working through these layers like we do, we have to find a new way to be in relationship with people.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:14:59]:
And it's, you know, it's hard. The two people I know who are this way, I mean, I'm sure I know a lot more, but the two that readily come to mind, and this is obviously not true across the board, but they use a lot of alcohol to kind of fuel their Persona. So, like, you know, this was always in the literal party like life of the literal party that we were at. Like, they were, you know, they would. They would drink not in. Not necessarily excessively, but, like, enough to. To get them to this place of just being, like, really outgoing and really funny and doing really silly, crazy things to entertain people. And there was this.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:15:33]:
It was kind of adding to that capacity for them to just detach from whatever else was going on in their bodies, whatever other discomfort they may feel. And I know for a fact one of them had a lot of social anxiety and had a lot of insecurities. And so that alcohol kind of helped to cover up whatever discomfort he was feeling in the context of the party, in the social situation, and allowed him to get that attention through the way that he learned how to get it. And so, you know, speaking about this person ongoing, like, knowing that he's processed, he's actually working through this now, not drinking anymore and having a hard time, because when he's not showing up in that way, you know, it's kind of. It's quiet. There's not a, like, that's such a big personality, and there's light. There's, like, you're pulling in laughter and tons of energy when you're being that way. And when you kind of step back from it, things get quiet.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:16:21]:
There's not as much reaction. You're not pulling in so much attention because you're not doing anything that inherently is getting attention. And so you're just sort of left with this quiet inner world where it's like, oh, my God, this is so uncomfortable. Like, no one loves me, no one's showing up anymore. No one's responding to me. Like, it almost, like, begins to validate why we do it in the first place place initially. So it takes a lot of that understanding of what's going on and having that really grounded perspective of, like, this is normal. It's normal for, like, when I step back and stop showing up in this really big way to pull in all this attention.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:16:58]:
Like, of course, the natural response is that it's going to be quieter. And that's what I've been avoiding, probably. Right. And the silence that comes up is where a lot of other things arise that are uncomfortable for me. And alcohol, again, helps to escape all of that. So it, to me, like, and again, this may not be so super true, but it seems like if the reaction is to get big and loud in response, to try to get your needs met, that might be harder to quiet down and be still because it is such a stark contrast. Whereas for those of us who are already shut down and quiet, it's like, well, I'm already invisible. So I guess the other side of that is when you're moving from a place of invisibility into visibility, that is, you know, that I guess that's hard in its own way, but, yeah.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:17:45]:
And I don't know if you have seen that in your partner or not, but it seems like it's hard to rein that in and deal with the silence that happens as a result.
Oriana Broderick [00:17:53]:
Yeah. And it's an, it's an interesting dynamic for us because I've watched. I've watched that exact pattern happen where, you know, he has this really big personality and he makes everybody laugh and it's a whole thing. And then when he started being more introspective and started really doing his own inner work, he got very quiet. And a lot of times people were like, are you okay? Is Jason okay? What's wrong with Jason? And it was. And then even sometimes people would, like, start conversations with them just to get him worked up to that, like, energy. And so our dynamic being the person that I am, because I'm also more of a retreat, I don't need all the big attention, is now that we're both doing the inner work, he has started to be more comfortable in that space, just having somebody who is mirroring that back to him. And the other thing that I've noticed about people who are the life of the party is once they start doing the inner work, they just start doing really well, really fast.
Oriana Broderick [00:18:49]:
They just, you know, they are just more comfortable with themselves. So fast. And everything just starts to, like, unravel so quickly for them. Those onion layers just, like, you know, fall off. I don't know what that's about, but I definitely notice it more in that kind of energy space than I do in some of the other ones.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:19:06]:
Yeah, that's. I noticed that in this, the one person I was referring to, like, he, he started it and he immediately, he had a period of discomfort, and then he just sort of fell into. It's almost just like, how did it work so easy for you? Like, can you teach that to me? Because that seemed a little simple, but, yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. And if. If you're listening and that resonates, like, leave a comment, whatever platform you're listening on, because I want to hear about your experiences with this as well. It's so interesting. Yeah, it's so interesting how there's similar, you know, these are distinct individual humans, but these archetypes show up in similar ways.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:19:40]:
And now we're saying, like, it seems the healing process can be similar depending on the one, whatever one you're manifesting or showing up as. So. So then the next one is the yes person, which, again, feels like there's overlap with some of the other ones. But, you know, this is also a distinct way of showing up. So tell us about that one.
Oriana Broderick [00:19:57]:
So this one drops everything and neglects all their needs in the service of others. Was likely modeled self sacrifice in childhood and engaged in deep codependency patterns, much as the caretaker did. Believes that the only way to receive love is to be both good and selfless.
Oriana Broderick [00:20:14]:
Yeah, this is me. So this is an interesting one for me, too, because I feel like I have some tendencies that maybe fall into this. As far as, like, dropping everything for people. I did that a lot for my family. And I think it's interesting for me because I. It's interesting to have someone like this in your life as well. And my mother in law is very much like this. She will.
Oriana Broderick [00:20:40]:
You can call her any time of the day or night, and it doesn't matter what you're asking her to do, she'll do it. And that. It was a weird dynamic for me having a person like that in my life because I often felt like I was being manipulative of her almost because it. Because I. That was always the person that I went to if I needed something, is that I would always ask her. Cause she would never say no. And so it like, it almost. It just didn't.
Oriana Broderick [00:21:04]:
A lot of times, it didn't feel right to me, you know, and my. Obviously, that's my husband's mom, so he knew she was like that. And so, you know, he would be like, well, we'll just ask my mom. And I'd be like, well, are you sure we should ask your mom? Like, and he's like, well, yeah, she'll say yes. And so it was like, we played it. We played on it, but a lot of times it was uncomfortable. And you can tell we were both uncomfortable sometimes when we would have to ask her. But we knew that no one else was like this.
Oriana Broderick [00:21:28]:
We didn't. I've never had anyone like this in my life except for her. And so it wasn't like I could call my own parents. I mean, if I called my dad, he would, you know, God knows he. He might not answer the phone, depending on what time of the day it is. So it was just really. It is a really. That's a really strange archetype for me.
Oriana Broderick [00:21:45]:
And I think based off of the little bit that I know about her childhood, it really made sense how. Why she was this person, because I think that's 100%. The only way that she could get her needs met was to self sacrifice. There was so many things where she just didn't fit. Like, she didn't fit anywhere in society, so it made so much more sense to be the yes person, because how are you going to get seen and heard in the best possible way? Well, of course, to say yes to everyone and everything, no matter what. I mean, I think there was one day last year where she made, like, six trips to the airport in one day, and it's like an hour from her house, so. So for me, I feel like these people are the people that can hold the most resentment, too, because they do all of this stuff, but then they, like, secretly hold resentment because she would do that, too, because we were her main source of communication, and she could 100% be more herself around us, even though we knew that this was part of this Persona that she put on to stay safe. She would also be more open with us and be like, I don't really want to do this, but they're my friend, you know? And she would, like, start.
Oriana Broderick [00:22:55]:
You could feel that she was starting to harbor resentment towards people. And I definitely, like I said, I don't know, a ton of these type of people, but the couple that I know, I do feel like they are more prone to harbor resentment.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:23:08]:
Yes, 100%. And that is part of what can lead to the illness, right? That resentment and that anger. And that's what seethes inside of us. And anger is a, you know, that's a big energy to be repressing. And it just goes to show how strongly we identify with having to show up in the world in a certain way, even though it's making us so angry or uncomfortable or resentful or whatever. Like the, the payoff, so to speak, of showing up in that yes person way is still bigger and better than, you know, listening to the anger that's inside. And I definitely had a person in my life, and I won't get into specifics because I think they listen to the podcast, but there was a yes person in my life and it influenced me. It was part of my caretaker thing was just to be the yes person and similar to the life of the party that people love the yes person, right? Like, there's just a, like, if there's anyone you want around, it's the life of the party.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:24:06]:
It's the yes person you're wanting. You want to pull those people in, and because they're not competing with you, they're not withdrawing from you, they're not combat. Like, they're just anything you want. I'm going to entertain you. I'm going to love you. I'm going to say yes to you. Like, you know, you're like, please, yes, be my best friend and take care of me. Do all the things.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:24:22]:
And like you said, it can be hard if you are not necessarily like the person who is attracted in by that, if that's not the wound where you need a yes person but they're in your life, it's hard to not interact with that still, because no matter who you are, who doesn't like someone saying yes to your requests, you know, it doesn't matter how you were raised or what you need from someone. That is a hard energy to not take advantage of. And so it. And, you know, and then it becomes this dynamic of like, am I responsible for setting the boundary here? Because that doesn't feel right either, but I also don't want to feel feed into their pathology and like, creating, you know, resentment. And it sounds like you guys have a healthier dynamic than, you know, she might for her friends, but generally that's a hard, that's hard. And when we have a particular, particularly when it's. And I, you know, I don't know, I'd have to look at all the different archetypes, but it seems like particularly for someone like the yes person where it's. It's like you potentially could constantly be engaged in something you said yes to, right? Like your whole schedule, your every minute of your day could be filled with saying yes to something else.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:25:30]:
It takes up all the space and time where you could spend any ounce of energy on yourself, right? And I think that's where these archetypes can get really, really intense, is when they are taking up all of who we are, all of the way in which we're showing up in the world. And again, I think the yes person is particularly vulnerable because of just the way that archetype shows up. Same with the rescuer. Right? And the caretaker. Like those ones that are kind of focused really solely on some. One other person or a few other people in particular. When all that energy is going out to the. That person or people, then there's no time in the day to be yourself.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:26:07]:
There's. And I think that's on purpose, right? Like that. Like, again, a lot of these archetypes are about getting away from yourself and getting away from things that are in your life that don't feel good or things that are in your body that don't feel good. And it's about getting needs met and all the things we talked about. But it's just really hard to. It's hard to start to scale that back because you. I think a big initial feeling when you start to work through these archetypes is, well, who am I then? Who actually am I? If my entire calendar is filled with saying yes to people and suddenly I have a two hour gap in my afternoon, what am I going to do? What do I want to do? I don't know. I've never asked myself that question again.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:26:50]:
It's really uncomfortable work, especially if we are engaging in these archetypes to that degree.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:26:58]:
Hi everyone. Doctor Erin here. So by now you're starting to get an idea of some of what the sacred illness paradigm is all about. The sacred illness paradigm is all about this question of what is your illness inviting you to become? What is it that lies within each of us that allows some of us to acquire so called spontaneous healing or remission missions? And what is the key to unlocking that innate self healing capacity in each and every one of us? The sacred illness blueprint is something that I developed as a guide to help you walk through this process step by step to learn how to move deeper and deeper within yourself, to find these layers of dysregulation, of trauma, of limiting beliefs of things that you're holding within your system that are keeping you small, stuck and sick. Ultimately, if we ignore the mind body connection and are not exploring the ways in which our nervous system continues to be dysregulated or in a chronic state of activation and stress, any healing modality that we put into our body from the outside in is going to be less effective, if not effective at all. So if you are currently feeling stuck, lost, confused or disillusioned in your healing journey, feeling like you have tried so many things, you have tried so many more modalities, you have worked with so many providers, and you're just not seeing the results you want, know that this is normal. And of course you're not, because this foundational mind body connection is often, if not always, missed in all of these modalities. And just like we can't build a house on top of sand, our healing cannot grow and blossom and be strong and successful if the foundation is not laid first.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:28:35]:
So rather than doing something different, but similar to everything you have tried before and expecting different results, I encourage you to consider doing something different altogether. This is where I invite you to explore the sacred illness group coaching program. This is a low cost monthly membership option that I have created. It's constantly open, constantly enrolling where you can begin to explore this completely different way of engaging in your health, in your body, in your illness and in your healing process. Process. What is provided inside this group coaching program is the blueprint that lays the foundation and lays the path out for you to follow, to begin to explore these deeper aspects of health, to truly get at the root of what is causing your illness and from there, allowing all other modalities to blossom so that you can actually start to see the changes and the healing take place in your body that you have been expecting and wanting all along. If you're ready and want to learn more, head on over over to aurorasomatic.com and at the top of the screen, click on group coaching where you can read all about it and become a member today. I can't wait to see you on the inside.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:29:36]:
And for now, let's get back to the podcast.
Oriana Broderick [00:29:41]:
He engages to that degree for sure. And a lot of the things that she struggled with health wise have been things that would force her to slow down. Like, you know, she's had issues with her heart and she had to have her hip replaced and like, you know, things like that, like she fell down and really hurt herself, broke both of her wrists. And so it was like almost a forcing of, you know, there's nothing you can do when you. When you have to have your hip replace, you're not moving a whole lot. You're certainly not doing anything for anyone.
Oriana Broderick [00:30:12]:
And the weird part for. For me with this particular archetype is, and maybe it's not across the board, so if you find yourself being a yes person, as a listener, I'd love to hear what your feelings are about this, but for her specifically, she doesn't have a lot of people in her life that would help her. And her friend group is very large and, like, everybody loves her. However, when she got hurt and she couldn't do anything for herself when she broke both of her wrists and she was really down and out at that point, I called every single one of her, one of her friends, and nobody wanted to show up for her. But she actually doesn't care. Like, it didn't make any difference to her. She still absolutely, like, neglects everything about herself to make sure that everyone around her is taken care of and that she can say yes to everyone regardless of what that means for her. And I don't.
Oriana Broderick [00:31:06]:
I mean, sometimes I wonder if she'd slow down if, like, I don't know, like, I feel like she could end up in a, you know, really depressive state or something if she slowed down just because she would actually have to stop and look at what she's doing and her patterns and stuff. And even when she does lay down, she's very shameful and guiltful about it. She's like, I'm so lazy. I can't believe I'm just sitting here doing nothing. Yeah, and it's like you've been sitting down for 15 minutes.
Oriana Broderick [00:31:35]:
Take a break.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:31:36]:
Exactly.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:31:37]:
It's so interesting because the yes person in my life is so similar to that. And it is like there's constant go energy because there's just that moving away from the self. Right. Because there's not. When you settle for too long, then you're left with yourself, and that's an uncomfortable place to be. And in my yes person, depression is a big part of their life. And so it is this kind of push pull between, like, go, go, go, go. Take care of everyone, make sure all the needs are met, make sure everyone is happy.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:32:07]:
And then when there's stillness, it's the body saying no. And being like, stop, stop, stop.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:32:12]:
Slow down.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:32:12]:
Lay down, like, please. But there's that resistance against that, against that, because it's hard to look at that stuff. And one of the big keywords you wrote in the description you sent is selfless. And I think when I think about the yes person specifically because of what you were saying about your mother in law where she had, like, she has tons of friends, but then in the moments of need, no one shows up. Right. And that selfless behavior is so much of. And this is how it shows up in my yes person. What do you want to do? Oh, I don't care.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:32:44]:
Whatever you want to do. Like, it's that, like, how, how do I make you happy? What do you want? What, how do I say yes to you? Through everything. And so essentially the way, like, the, these archetypes train people how to see us and how to respond and react to us. And so by being selfless, which is theoretically, like, a noble thing to be, right. Like, we just, oh, what a selfless human. What a wonderful, sacrificing person, right. Which is, you know, it can be good, but in this context, you are training people to basically see that you have no needs at all. You are needless, you are completely competent and taking care of yourself.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:33:18]:
And so why would I worry about you? You say yes to me, you do what I want, and then you need nothing in return. Great. What a wonderful dynamic we have here. Like, stick around. And I saw this in my yes person where she, you know, she's constantly, like, doing things for people and, you know, showing up to, like, planning events or, like, just being very mindful of what's going on in their lives and being the one to show up and give them the things that they need. And when she retired from her job, her career of, you know, many, many, many years, no one organized a retirement party for her. Not one of her. And most, a lot of her friends were part of her work, you know, like, worked with her, even though for the last, like, five years, she had spent going to their parties and planning them and cooking for them and all of that.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:34:04]:
And not a single person did that for her, you know, and there's, you know, there's lots of examples of that. But it's just that because you almost think, like, well, they don't. They're fine. Like, they don't need it or, you know, like, they don't, they don't, they don't want that. Or, I don't know, there's just a way. Because I'm reflecting on how I think of this person, and it's that similar thing of, well, they don't need it. They're fine. They've never asked for anything.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:34:27]:
They've never expressed a need. So I think of them as a needless person literally does not have a need. But then that resentment comes around because, of course they have needs. And of course there's a self in there who wants to be loved and taken care of. But if you don't show that part of you and you don't ask for it or you don't let it come out, and you don't have boundaries around how much you're giving of yourself, no one's going to do that. And so I think one of the harder things of this work is to reflect on how am I responsible for this dynamic, this person that I resent and who. Sure, yeah, they're doing something cruel or unfair or mean or just whatever by not taking care of me when I have all these broken bones. That's hurtful behavior.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:35:12]:
But how am I responsible for training them to respond to me in that way? That's the hardest. I hate that part. Whenever I have to do that, I'm like, I don't want to take responsibility for this, but there's always something that's ours, right? Like, we in some way, shape, or form, trained them to respond to us in that way or to not respond to us in that way. And so, you know, that's a hard thing to acknowledge. So the last one is the hero worshiper. So let's hear about this one.
Oriana Broderick [00:35:42]:
So this one is a person that needs a person to follow a guru or some sort of thing like that. Likely emerges from an inner child boon made by a caretaker who was perceived superhuman without faults, believes that the only way to receive love is to reject their own needs and desires and views others as a model to learn how to live. So an interesting example of this. I do not know very many of these people personally. I know a lot of people in the spiritual community that are like this, but I don't know a lot of people who are like this. But an interesting dynamic that showed up from my husband, who, as we said, was the life of the party, was when he started doing the inner work. He started to get more into this archetype, which made sense because his dad very much believes that he is superhuman and has no faults. So it made sense.
Oriana Broderick [00:36:37]:
But it was interesting how I never really saw it show up throughout our relationship or ever heard any stories of him being like this as a child. Like where he felt like he needed to follow others or anything like that. And so it was interesting how it showed up like that in the beginning of his sort of inner work journey of, you know, he has to. He found. He actually found, like, gurus and people to follow. That seemed as though from my perspective, I don't think he felt this way. But from my perspective, that you're supposed to reject your needs and your desires, like, that was the message is you have no desires, you have no attachments in this world. You have no emotions.
Oriana Broderick [00:37:23]:
You have to separate from all of that stuff. And so a lot of our conversations would sometimes get, I guess, heated in a way because I was like, but what if you are? I understand what they're saying, but what if your purpose here on earth is to be human and to experience emotions and to experience needs and to experience desires? Like, I don't. I mean, you know, that was just a question that I had because some people are meant to be, you know, gurus and spiritual leaders, like, for whatever reason, that's their path. And so I think they have to learn to let go of some of that. But I was more trying to say, for your journey, maybe that is where you'll end up. But for the beginning part of your journey, I think maybe it's helpful to learn how to have needs and desires and express your emotions versus finding somebody whose message is to not. And so it's been. It's been an interesting thing to observe, to be an observer of that.
Oriana Broderick [00:38:20]:
And like I said, I don't. I don't really know any person who falls very, very deeply into this particular design or archetype.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:38:29]:
Same. Yeah. Not to this extent. And I. But what I have seen in myself and in others to, like, a minor degree is, is that, you know, when you don't have a strong sense of self, it is easy to kind of follow someone else who has a really strong conviction, or this is the way to do it, or this is, you know, like. Because I think that. And I think that to some degree, that's very normal. You know, when we're trying to find ourselves and we're trying to find our footing and get in touch with who we are, you know, we can follow people for a while or we're attracted to people.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:39:00]:
So I think that's, that's very normal to any degree for most of us, you know, we're always attracted to people we want to learn from. But when it gets into that archetype degree, you know, I think it's that, like, you become them completely. Right? And it's so your, like, your sense of self becomes that person is who I am. So again, I don't know anyone like you said to that, to that extreme. But I do wonder, you know, someone like myself who came from a home with a narcissistic parent. How that can feed into that in some sense, because obviously with narcissism, you know, you are not you. You are them, right? So it's kind of, there is sort of that guru kind of feeling, although it's not spiritual or beautiful or anything like that. But I see that in myself a lot where I am someone who's very easily convinced by someone who has a lot of conviction, you know, and I have had to learn how to pause.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:39:54]:
I'd be the one, like, signing up for all the telemarketer stuff, like, oh, yeah, that sounds great. Like, give me that miracle cure, whatever. Not anymore. But, you know, that I used to be very gullible and very easily convinced by things. And, you know, that shows up to some degree with, you know, business stuff or, you know, everyone's got the answer. Everyone's got the. The quick fix and the easy thing or whatever. That just sounds magical and whatever.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:40:16]:
So I think it's easy for me, personally, to just trust that someone else has it figured out more than I do or has a better way of showing up in the world than I do. And I should listen to them because look how confident they are, you know? And so I think that is part of that, like, training I had, so to speak, as a kid, of myself not existing and myself being this other person who knows better than me and who I need to listen to again in order to be safe. That was how I had to show up. And so I guess that's the, you know, I feel like maybe that is more resonant with folks versus that full on hero, you know, needing a guru kind of thing. I think there's a lot of degrees in which this one can show up.
Oriana Broderick [00:40:53]:
Yeah. And I'm like, it's weird because I'm like, the opposite of that. So as you were saying that, I was like, I do resonate with certain things that people say, and then I will find a way to be like, and I think there's a good part of this because then I realize that they're human, but I think it came out extreme in a lot of ways before of, oh, I really resonate with what you're saying. And then their humanness would come out and I'd be like, maybe you're not as trustworthy as I thought, and so maybe I'm not going to listen to you. That happens a lot with me. And so it's like the opposite with me. Like, you could show me the person that's saying the most loving stuff and it seems really great and really resonant. And I'm like, well, what about this right here, though? And it can be like one small, little like excerpt or sentence.
Oriana Broderick [00:41:45]:
And I'm like, I don't know. So, you know, it's, it's interesting to me that I wouldn't know really anyone like this as a result of being so very opposite of that, where totally, it wouldn't be resonant. I mean, that wouldn't be resonant, right. Like that wouldn't help that person to be around me. Or maybe it would, but I certainly don't attract that type of person because I'd be like, so let me tell you about your guru.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:42:08]:
Yeah, right. And they're like, no, no, no.
Oriana Broderick [00:42:12]:
Yeah, exactly.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:42:14]:
That's funny. I see that in, in people who are considering working with me, that shows up a lot, that opposite thing that you're talking about where it's like everything you're saying makes a lot of sense and sounds really good. But, you know, I don't know, there's like, there's like something that they become skeptical about or there's like one thing that I say or there's a certain, you know, I think someone said something like, yeah, you're, you know, you're the work you do sounds really good, but I know you had to learn it from someone. Like, as if I was, I don't know, I was like, I don't understand the implication that I'm saying that I was born with this mental, like, of course I learned it from somebody. I learned it from lots of people, you know, but it was like, there was something about it that was like untrusting, you know, it was like, this feels good, but there's, it's almost like you, you kind of look for that thing to be like, okay, nope, nope, can't let you in my life because that, that one thing is, it's off. You know, I wonder if that has.
Oriana Broderick [00:43:03]:
Something to do with it, like going through all of the steps, you know, like when you start feeling sick, you, there's a steps that you go through. Most times you'll see a allopathic doctor, and then when those, when you've exhausted those, you go to, you know, naturopathic care. And when you've exhausted all of those, then you find Doctor Erin. You know what I mean? And then by the time you find doctor Erin, your trust has been completely abducted.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:43:27]:
Yeah, that makes sense.
Oriana Broderick [00:43:27]:
Now you're just like, let me find, you know, six years ago in this one video, you said, you know what I mean? So it's like that kind of stuff. I mean, I don't. I think that that could be very true. I have a friend who had. I mean, she had, like, I think part of her coaching is saying that she had, like, 150 symptoms or something that she. That she healed from, and she saw over 85 doctors between naturopathic and allopathic medicine and was, like, on 150 different pharmaceuticals and supplements. And, I mean, like, she was just drowned by all of that stuff trying to heal. And so the avenue that she went seemed like it was very much that, like, I have to find somebody that's so different and so out of the box, because that's almost the only way that I could trust it in a way or something.
Oriana Broderick [00:44:22]:
It was really weird. And so I feel like, for me, I didn't go through those exact steps to find you. I was more of like, I'm not going to do that because I'm not even going to try to go down that rabbit hole of whatever. Like, I just don't even want to be treated that way. So it was more of a direct route to you. But you were also somewhere in the middle of full on naturopathic, you know, care of, like, very rigid dogmatic naturopathic care, and then, like, whatever, the next whatever the furthest thing from that is, like, you know, eat rocks or something. I don't know. That's something like that.
Oriana Broderick [00:45:00]:
You know? Like, if you go out and you do this specific thing that's really weird and doesn't make any sense, you were somewhere in the middle of that. So that is where the trust came for me, is okay. So this person seems more grounded and stable and passionate about what she's saying versus trying to, you know, sell some crazy whatever in the world or be, like, very dogmatic like you. If you have these symptoms going on, you have to be tested for Lyme, you have to be tested for heavy metals, you have to, you know, and then by the time you've tested a million things, you're like, I don't even know where to start now. Like, what supplements do I start with? Because I have, you know, little bits of everything or whatever, because I had a little bit of that, because that was really where I started with naturopathic medicine, and I started with the test, and I was like, good Lord in heaven, I can't do this. I just can't.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:45:48]:
Nope, nope. Yeah, I mean, it's like that. They say if you. If you run enough tests, you're going to find something wrong. But that doesn't necessarily mean, you know, that's the thing that is going to be the answer or the fix. And I think a lot of the work, I mean, our work is based around what we're talking around, which is meeting people where they're at as an individual person and not practicing one size fits all medicine, because that doesn't exist. It does not exist. We are not one size fits all.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:46:13]:
We are very different people. We all show up differently. Everything we've been talking about. And so when there is an algorithmic approach to medicine, you are basically applying a one size fits all approach to a very diverse population, and it will work for one person or two because that's the type of treatment they need. But for the thousands of others, it's not gonna, it's not gonna work. And so, you know, and our medicine is based on not being the healer, not being the guru. Like, we are not the people who are leading the, like, causing the change to happen. Right.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:46:47]:
Like, we are guiding people to the steps and the medicine that lies within their bodies to kind of turn that on and get that change to be, you know, happening from the inside. But it's not us. Right. We're. We're really careful about that because we're not wanting to pull in the people who need the rescuer or to have the guru. Like, I do not want to be the guru. Right. We want to be the people who are saying, I did this by doing this.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:47:12]:
You can do this by doing this and finding your unique path and your unique steps, but it's taking your power back. Right? Like, this is all about, get back to your authentic self. What do you need? What do you want? What are your steps? What do they look like? And how do we, as guides, sit here and support you and, you know, help, you know, give you nudges, right? Like, we can be the bumpers on the bowling alley. Like, get the ball back onto the court or whatever it's called. Not court, whatever. Thank you. Yes, but we're not going to be, we're not going to hold your hand and, like, show you how to throw the ball, and we're not going to run down and knock all the pins over, you know, like, we're going to be like, okay, now just, like, keep the ball here, but, like, this is your general area, but you find your path, basically.
Oriana Broderick [00:47:55]:
And I think that bowling is actually such a good analogy. Like, I know sometimes you think that your analogies are really weird. I don't. I love. I guess I love people who say, weird analogies because my partner does the exact same thing where he gives you like, these random analogies and you're like, what really fits here, though? Like, it seemed really weird when it started out, but it really fits here. But bowling really is that. I mean, bowling is very unique. Like, you can't, everybody, you know, has a different type of ball that has a different type of weight that.
Oriana Broderick [00:48:21]:
Yeah, you know, so it really fits really good here because. Because it is very unique that what we're empowering, the empowering people to heal themselves, this is not, you know, we're going to lead you to the fountain of youth. This is, you know, this already exists within you. It just is hidden behind all of these things. So let us help you open up some of these doors and be supportive of when you open those doors, what that uncomfortability is going to feel like and, you know, keep moving towards that. But I really did like the bullying.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:48:54]:
And I feel like that was a redemption moment for me. Yeah. I mean, and ultimately, like, the medicine we practice and preach or whatever is that it's internal, right? So we're, we as external people to. You don't want to be the next external thing you're pinning it all on or putting it all on or relying on or counting on to be, you know, like where the medicine we have is trying to drive you in internally. And I almost want to call it internal medicine, but that's a thing. That's a thing. Medicine. That is not what we're doing.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:49:23]:
So don't call it that. But yeah, so it's guiding you back to what's inside of you and eliciting the change from the inside out. Because that's, again, that's the grassroots way that we're going to make these shifts that need to happen in order for us to heal individually and then eventually collectively.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:49:44]:
Thanks so much for tuning in to another episode of the Sacred Illness podcast. If you find this information shared here, inspirational and educational, please share it with those you think would benefit from this work. To take this work deeper yourself, check out our website, www.aurorasomatic.com, where you can explore our coaching community and course options. And don't forget to subscribe to this channel where new content is coming out all the time, intended to inspire, awaken and help you deepen your relationship with yourself, your life and your world.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:50:15]:
We'll see you next time.
