Dr. Erin Hayford [00:00:02]:
So the big question is, we know spontaneous remissions and so called miracle cures exist. We also know they aren't so spontaneous after all.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:00:12]:
I'm living proof of this.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:00:13]:
Having cured my quote unquote incurable illness, there's something to how this happens. So how do we, as humans with chronic symptoms, tap into this so called miraculous healing capacity? That is the question, and this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Doctor Erin Hayford, and welcome to the sacred illness podcast. Before we begin today's episode, just my standard medical disclaimer. This podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only. The content should not be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always consult with a qualified healthcare professional.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:00:52]:
Regarding any medical condition concerns. Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Sacred Illness podcast. This is episode 19, and today we're going to be talking all about fear. And I'm excited to get into this topic because it's such a crucial, well, actually, to quote something I saw on instagram the other day, basically said, fear is an inevitable companion of the healing journey work. And it's more so about not, you know, it's not, it's not the exception. It's the rule. It's going to be here. It's going to be part of this work.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:01:23]:
And so how do we work with it? How do we learn to be with fear? How do we learn to accept fear and to, like, allow it to work with us or just know what to expect so that doesn't get in the way and doesn't thwart our progress or our healing capacity. And so we're going to talk today a lot about how it shows up, why it shows up, because it's not just a random thing and the ways in which it can get in the way of the healing journey, the ways in which Orianna and I have both seen it get in the way of the healing journey. And really, again, kind of drilling in why it's showing up and what to do about it. Because this is one of the most powerful emotions that we feel. Fear is.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:02:02]:
It's scary. It's power. It's overwhelming. Right? It's this really strong urge to tell us to stop and turn around. And so it's very compelling. It's very convincing, and it's hard to not listen to it if we don't know what to expect. And so this episode serves as a, the goal, I guess, of this episode is to shine light on this really important topic. Because the more we understand something, the more we know why it's here.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:02:27]:
The more we know why it's happening, it kind of takes the weight out of it. It makes it less scary. So we're going to try to make fear less scary today in this episode. So let's delve in. So I guess the way to start this out is just to talk about fear in general. Like, why does fear show up in the. In particular with healing, in the healing journey and healing work? So what we were talking about before we hit record was there's several ways it shows up. And initially it shows up because, quite frankly, getting sick is scary.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:03:00]:
Right? I mean, getting a diagnosis is scary. And oftentimes, you know, it's these chronic illness diagnoses that we get that really are putting us into this unknown world, this unknown place. I am curious for you, Orianna. Like, when you first started getting sick, like, first started having symptoms or first got a diagnosis, do you remember, like, if fear came up for you, or, like, where, you know, where in your kind of journey did fear start to first show up for you as you were moving through your own healing work?
Oriana Broderick [00:03:32]:
I think it showed up right away for me because when the very first thing that happened was I fainted and ended up in the ER. And, you know, sometimes the ER can be helpful for certain things, and other times when they. When maybe there's just one thing. So I had low potassium. At that. At that moment, they don't really tell you anything. They just say, you have low potassium. We gave you potassium.
Oriana Broderick [00:03:59]:
Here's your discharge paper. See you later. And so there was a lot of fear around that for me because I think our nervous systems want to have a solution to the problem. But if you don't know what the problem is, then you're just reeling on a solution, which come. Which, for me, came from a very fear based place. And so I started grasping for every tool that I had ever learned outside of me. I. There was fear from the way that my, every woman in my family handled their diagnosis and their stuff.
Oriana Broderick [00:04:28]:
And then there was the period of time that I worked in a naturopathic clinic and having the tools and understanding there. And then there was something that was underneath that fear that was like, there has to be more to it. There has to be more to this. It can't just be. I either have to go this route or this route. But that part was such a small percentage, and I think so out of my comfort zone, that fear took over it. And so I. Even though it was there and I heard it initially, fear took over it.
Oriana Broderick [00:04:59]:
And it would just became this thing that was in the background somewhere that would come up when I could get the fear to quiet for a little bit.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:05:07]:
That's so interesting. Yeah. Because I am often curious about that, like, how many of us have that little inkling of what it is, like, on this deeper level, and either, like you said, kind of ignore it because the fear is too loud or don't know what to do with it, don't know what that even means. And so we kind of push it away. I feel like that's a whole thing to explore in and of itself. Yeah. And I was thinking about my journey with Crohn's disease, and I think when I first got diagnosed, I was. First of all, I was young, I was in my early twenties, so I was kind of, like, ignorant about the.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:05:39]:
The weight, I think, of, like, what that meant. Um, because I remember my parents reactions being like, oh, God, you know, like, just being really, like, upset about the diagnosis and me being a little bit, like, what's their problem? Like, why is this a big deal? And I think part of my general reaction to heavy stuff, to, like, big stuff is to kind of just disconnect or dissociate from it, you know? And so I think I went into this place of denial for quite a while, and it wasn't until I was deep into taking the medications and doing the things I was supposed to do that I think fear started to creep in because it was like, same for you. Like, is this it? Like, this can't be it, but. But this is. This is what I was given. And, you know, as people who know, my story, like, goes, that's eventually what pushed me into seeking alternative stuff, because it was like, again, denial. I don't know. Whatever.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:06:31]:
Whatever it was, it was just like, I wouldn't. I didn't want to accept it. One of the things we see is, first of all, maybe let's give a little physiological background to all of this. As human animals, any animal with a nervous system is wired for survival. Our nervous systems. Basically, one job is to keep us alive. To do that, it's constantly scanning the environment for, is this safe, or is this going to hurt me in some way, shape or form? Is it a threat? And so because of that, the nervous system is always pushing us toward things that are familiar. Because if you think about familiarity, familiarity is safe.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:07:11]:
We know what it is. We know what to expect. It's predictable. And so therefore, the unknown is very scary. It elicits a very strong fear response, and I think I shared somewhere in the various places that I share information that there was this study that was done, and essentially they were trying to figure out, like, what is the biggest stressor to humans, and the biggest, the biggest, the result of the survey or of the research they were doing was things that are unknown. Things that are unknown is the biggest stressor to human beings. And so when, again, when we get sick, we're kind of thrust into this new world of the unknown, especially if we're again diagnosed with something more chronic or more significant or if it's like fainting or so just something big that we've never really experienced before. It's scary, and we can get used to it over time.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:08:03]:
Eventually, illness and symptoms start to become familiar because especially when they're chronic, we're having them over and over. But that initial introduction into the world of illness is scary. And because of that, we are wired again to move toward what is familiar. So we're moving to what doctors are familiar to me, what treatment modalities are familiar to me. So we start to, most of us start to go in that direction. We start to go toward the providers, the modalities, et cetera, that are known and that, you know, that will vary. It doesn't always mean conventional medicine. Like, if you were brought up in a world of ayurvedic medicine or some other traditional form of medicine, that's what you're going to do.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:08:41]:
Or, you know, in my case, it was conventional western medicine. So that's what I did. You know, I went to the GI doctor, had all the tests, blah, blah, blah. So we tend to start in the world that we know. And that's, again, to, it's a, it's a nervous system thing. But I think it's just also like, it makes sense we would start with what we know and eventually what can happen and what we've seen happen many times with the people. I mean, it seems like inevitably, depending on how we're working with our illness, we get to this point of what else is there, right? Like this isn't quite working, this isn't quite the full picture. I think this is more common in conventional medicine settings because as we were saying before we hit record, there's such a focus on the symptom.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:09:24]:
As we've talked about many times, you know, in this podcast, you're missing all of the context, like all of the richness of the human life that led up to this illness forming in the first place. It's just like all they're seeing is this, like and people can't see me who are listening to the podcast, but on YouTube. I'm trying to demonstrate with my hands like an iceberg, essentially, right? So symptoms are like the part above water. So we're treating those symptoms with medications, with surgery, with whatever, but we're missing everything that's underneath. And so eventually, when we're trying these modalities and we're trying to deal with symptoms and we're trying to suppress them or change them or alter them in some way, shape or form, you know, it might happen, it might help a little bit, it might help a lot, a bit. It might not help at all, might make things worse. But I think the ultimate journey eventually takes some people to this place of, is this it? Is this all I'm going to get out of my treatment? Because we're basically managing symptoms. We're not actually curing the disease most of the time.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:10:23]:
We're not actually getting a person back to normal, so to speak. We're just managing symptoms. And so then people start to look for alternatives. And so, like I said in my journey, that was me getting to that place of just, you know, being in my twenties, not wanting to take medication forever, definitely not wanting surgery at some point, where did you start to turn back toward that, like, inner voice of like, there's got to be something else?
Oriana Broderick [00:10:48]:
So I decided to go to a naturopathic doctor pretty quickly after the hospital situation and working in one of those clinics, I realized that there were a lot of things that were happening. There was all these detoxes that you did and all these supplements that you take and all these things can happen. And so when I started seeing the naturopathic doctor, I ended up, I think by the end, I was on like 40 supplements or something like that. And why? The time I got there, it was just this part of me that was like, what are we doing? What this? How is this any different than that? Maybe these aren't as have as many side effects as a medication or something like that, but I started to have worse symptoms. There were just more symptoms that were showing up. And somehow I was able to say that there's no way that I'm going to be able to get beyond this illness or these symptoms if I just keep adding on more things. And so I was just like, I'm done with all of this. And I just stopped taking everything and was like, I'm going to start with one thing and find that one thing.
Oriana Broderick [00:12:01]:
And it was almost like an intuition. There was just something inside of me. After I started getting these horrible rashes on my face, which the naturopathic doctor told me was just my body detoxing more quickly than people usually do when they take supplements. And I just didn't, I mean, I didn't like it. I didn't like to have an itchy face. I didn't like waking up. And so I, its almost like that other part of me started to get bigger, was theres more to this? Theres something underlying here that has to be looked at before any of this is going to work. And I think that was true for me with everything, because I tried acupuncture after that, after the supplements, I went to acupuncture and I found this very traditional woman who had no, she was very against anything medical, and she, supplements were her very last defense.
Oriana Broderick [00:12:52]:
If, for whatever reason, acupuncture wasn't working, then we'd try supplements on top of that. And so because I found her, and I found that it was very in line with how I was feeling, but what I realized is that was I found her from a fear place. And so although there was little bits of symptoms that got better, they still were there. They were just not as big. And something she said to me one day, well, she used to say it to me every time I'd have a session, was, do you believe it's going to work? And I think that kind of goes back to your podcast on power of belief. If you are letting fear be bigger than that belief, it doesn't matter what you do. It's only going to work for a short period of time or potentially not at all. And I think we've had lots of clients that have that fear that nothing's going to work for them.
Oriana Broderick [00:13:40]:
And so it doesn't make any difference what they do. And so that's kind of where I was with her. I can't keep going down this road with all these different practitioners and all these different modalities. So I had to work from that little percent that was originally there of there's more to this. And once I really sat with that, I didn't even go looking for anything that was resonant with that. I just sat with it. What does that mean for me? What does it mean for me to turn and look at my fear and say, what is this and what are we doing? And how did I get here? Then that's when, for unbeknownst reasons, your ad started showing up on my instagram. And I was like, as soon as I went to your page, I was like, this is it.
Oriana Broderick [00:14:23]:
This is exactly what I was looking for, is someone that's going to show me what this means and how I can move through it from my unique situation instead of it being this very cookie cutter. Everybody has this diagnosis. Everybody that has this diagnosis gets this x, y, and z thing.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:14:42]:
Love the. The spirituality of Instagram ads.
Oriana Broderick [00:14:46]:
Yes. Whoever connected to your brain or something.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:14:52]:
So funny. Yeah. And I think it's, it is such an interesting, like, I just have this image of, like, a teeter totter where fear, you know, does tend to dominate for quite a while. And then it just. It's like frustration or it's intuition or just something eventually, like, flips the scale where we're like, okay, this, like, no, this is not. I can't. I can't go on like this. And I think it does take getting to that really some, oftentimes challenging spot, and sometimes it feels hopeless or helpless or whatever.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:15:20]:
You know, we just get to this place of, like, something's gotta give. Beliefs do shape a lot of this, right? And there is, like, that is the biggest, I think driver of fear is like, what is that foundation of belief you have in your. In anything helping you? Like, in being helped, deserving help, the capacity to be helped. Like, you know, all of, like, the. The capacity to heal, the. The belief in your body and health. Like, all of those things are going to play a role. But on that note, too, I don't know, because I know your story comes, like, you come from a lot of folks who did succumb or who didn't have that, like, you know, intuitive push to keep going.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:15:55]:
So do you have a sense of, like, how or why you did have that capacity to overcome your fear and to seek a better path versus to succumb to how you were feeling?
Oriana Broderick [00:16:05]:
I think I had a sense always growing up that I didn't want to have that life. I, with my mom, she always used to tell us growing up that she wanted to be a flight attendant, and that was, like, her dream. And I asked her as I was getting older why she didn't follow that dream. And, you know, she expressed that my grandma wanted her to get married and kind of pushed her into that. And so I think she thought, if I listen to her and I do this and I live this life that everybody wants me to live, then I will be accepted in a, you know, in a way, into the family. And I think from so many places, I saw her still not being accepted into the family. I mean, everyone in my family is my mom's side of the family are like, short and brown hair and, you know, a little bit more curvy. And my mom was really tall, and she had blonde hair and green eyes.
Oriana Broderick [00:17:01]:
She was like a barbie doll. And so even from the outward appearance, she didn't look like she fit into her family at all. So growing up in a family like that and also singing it with my grandma and my aunt, they didn't, you know, they were very traditional wives. They didn't work. They took care of the kids and did all the house cleaning and all of those things. And there was something inside of me that was like, this isn't what we're made for. You know, we're not made for this. And even though there was a lot of fear that came in when I got.
Oriana Broderick [00:17:32]:
When I started to have symptoms, there was still that part of me that was like, I am not going to allow this Sikh system to hold me down. You know, it's kind of like a rebellion, natural rebellion or anarchy that I had within me that it was like, no, this is not. I'm not going to do that. And so I was just had that always in my mind of, there's no way that I can go. I can just fully delve and believe in this path. And so if I can't fully believe in it, then I have to step out and make a different choice, because then I'm always going to be chasing something. And so I think once we started to work together, I realized how much my trauma played into this constant chase for an answer. And when you start to have symptoms, you have to almost let go of that because that, I think, will get you stuck in that teeter totter of back and forth between what is familiar and that part of you that's like, we have to go this other way.
Oriana Broderick [00:18:32]:
And you almost get stuck in, like, a liminal space. If you don't let that go, it that is, I feel like the epitome of where the fear in this journey starts is right there at that moment of that chase of, there's got to be something else, because your brain is going to tell you at some point, if you choose the work that we're doing at some point in your journey of this work, once the excitement comes down and once all of that feeling of, I finally found the people I finally found the thing comes down, there's going to be that part of your brain that's like, this isn't working, and then you're going to search for the next thing and the next thing. So if you can just hone in on that one specific fear. I think it creates a little bit of space for you to open up more of that percentage of belief that there was something more.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:19:16]:
Well, and it's so interesting hearing you talk about this because you can, or at least maybe from my perspective, because I know you well, is how there is. I mean, generally, I think we do have that kind of natural revolt against our parents. Like, if we're allowed to fully become teenagers and have that, like, this is me, I autonomous, you know, I'm going to step away from the family unit and or if we just see things that in our family that are so not okay, you know, we have it in our head of, like, I'm just not going to do that because I see how it doesn't work, and so I'm not going to do that. And so that is, it's interesting to just see the complexity of how childhood traumatic experiences, experiences both push us to do better and then also still somehow rear their ugly head. Like, you know, there's this, like, push pull where it's like I'm going to pursue something different. But those fears that my family held around illness and, you know, being a certain way or whatever, they show up in other ways. So it's kind of this interesting cycle of, like, how fear is part of what can, like, prevent us from taking the steps we need, and it's also part of what needs to be. So it's like the medicine and the block at the same time, you know, in a kind of complex dance.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:20:25]:
But so, yeah, you started to talk about this liminal space, and I think that's what we were talking about before, where we're saying, like, you get to this place where some people are like, okay, what's next? This isn't working. I need to try something else because fear is going to keep us locked in the familiar until we make the conscious choice to do something else. And so you said it perfectly. There's this excitement around that. Like, I think people get really excited when that, you know, when they're kind of like, finally landing into a new thing and they're like, okay, this resonates. This feels really good in my system. I feel like this is the next step. This is the thing I've been looking for.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:21:02]:
And so there's definitely momentum at first because that excitement is bigger than the fear. But then as time goes on, right when you start to do this work, it starts to feel less exciting. It starts to feel less sexy because in the work that we do specifically because we are working with the nervous system, we're working with programming of the nervous system. We're working with subconscious thoughts and beliefs and trauma and experiences that, you know, it's basically we're working with all the things that we have pushed away and, like, don't want to look at and don't want to see that. This work starts to become not so sexy and fun because it's like, well, I put it over there for a reason. And so, essentially, the way I kind of think about it is the deeper we get into this work of, you know, finding the layers that are keeping us sick, finding the parts of ourselves that are. That we're suppressing the trauma that's held in our body, whatever it might be. The deeper into the unknown we're going, because we don't know what the layers are that we're opening up.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:22:02]:
We don't know what are the things we're going to encounter as this journey goes. Like, this journey is, it's almost like becoming less known. You know, the further in you go, it becomes less known, which is kind of alternative to what we expect. Like, we expect as we're doing something, it becomes more familiar. But I think this work peels back so many layers that it's becoming less and less known, less and less familiar, because we're getting into these deeper spaces that we haven't seen or accessed for such a long time. So for that reason, and especially when we start to get into really tough stuff, our nervous system at many, many points along this journey is going to try to get us to turn back. I keep kind of thinking of the hero's journey. So if you.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:22:43]:
If, you know, for the listeners who are not familiar with Joseph Campbell's hero's journey, just google it. You'll see an image of it. Essentially, it's this story that, you know, people of epic tales follow. So, like Luke Skywalker or Dorothy in the wizard of Oz, obviously, Frodo, um, you know, you, like, you get initiated into this journey. You go into the unknown, and inevitably, you get to the point in the journey where it's, like, the hardest part. Right? And so, um, I'm trying to think, like, for Frodo, I guess it's probably when he's, like, super weak and tired and, like, Sam has to carry him or whatever, you know? Or like Luke Skywalker, right? Like he's battling the empire. The emperor or whatever. Emperor, empire, whatever.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:23:23]:
You guys know the story, right? Okay, good. Um, so it's. You get to this crux, right? And it's like, it would be so much easier to turn back. Right? Like, I mean, I think Frodo literally, like, wants to go back to the Shire, right? He's just, like, done. He doesn't want to do this anymore. He's depleted. He doesn't want to take the ring any further. He wants to go back because you start to crave the familiarity of what was because where you're at is so challenging.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:23:47]:
And that is, again, where we have to really see that this is fear driving the show. It is really, really common for us to get deep into a healing journey where we feel like, where even am I, what am I doing? Is this the right path? You know, what? Like, what do I. This is starting to get harder and harder and harder. It feels contradictory to our system because we think of a healing journey as getting health, achieving health, healing right, feeling better. And so when it starts to get harder, before it gets better, it feels very contradictory to our system. And so did that. I guess I'm curious if that happened for you, where you were experiencing, like, a worsening before, a bettering kind of thing, and maybe even, like, how you got through it or, you know, were there moments of turning back or how did that manifest for you?
Oriana Broderick [00:24:38]:
So in the beginning of all of this, yes, things got worse before they got better, a lot worse before they got better. And I think having that community, having that other person that understood, was one of the big, pivotal things that kept reminding my system that we were ultimately safe, that we were, there was something bigger on the other side of this. And then things got really good for a long time, I would say. I mean, long time for me. And then things kind of started to come back a little bit, but I felt like it was more of. So I don't think you just go on the hero journey and then you're done. I think you probably go on it a couple of times, maybe lots of times throughout your lifetime. And I think in the illness journey, when you have diagnosis and symptoms, you're probably going to go through it multiple times in a short period of time.
Oriana Broderick [00:25:34]:
And so I've been on this specific journey with this work for almost two years, and I think that I have probably experienced that hero's journey three times. And this time that I'm in it now. It's like this truth that you have to look at about yourself. And I think as you're going through it, that's always true. But when you've been symptom free or most of your symptoms have been gone and your life feels like it's coming back. It is almost like your system says, let's see how you're going to respond. Let's see what you've learned, almost, which would make sense for a hero's journey. You get through and you're on this really great path, and you're like, oh, yes, I've made it.
Oriana Broderick [00:26:23]:
And then the last dragon or whatever shows up, the boss of the video game level or whatever. That's where I feel like I'm at right now. These significant truths that I have to see about myself, that there's almost a forgiveness and a grief that I have to go through, and I feel better equipped to handle those emotions than I did before when I was going through. I think the reason why it was significantly harder before was because I don't feel like I had a good grasp on the tools. It was still very scary to feel really big emotions. It was scary to feel those big emotions of just visceral rage and visceral sadness. You know, it's. It's different than any of the emotions that I was allowing myself to feel before, which were very minimal.
Oriana Broderick [00:27:19]:
You know, if something sad happened, I would have this wave of sadness. And then it was almost like I was like, okay, I have to. I have to be done with that because there's these people that I have to be here for, and I have to be strong for this situation. And I had this Persona that I was living up to. And so as that Persona has broken down and that version of me has died, I think there's still a part of me that's holding on to that version and wishes that I could go back to that. Because, in a way, if you can go back to that version of yourself that really got you to your illness and your symptoms in the first place, it's almost like you can not know any of this, right? I don't. I can just go back, and I don't have to feel any of my feelings, and I don't. You know, everything that you were doing before that got you here.
Oriana Broderick [00:28:03]:
And so that was very comfortable for your system, especially if the longer you've had your symptoms or the older that you are is that particular part of you is very comfortable. And so I can feel my system being like, no, let's keep wanting for this. And so I'm, like, wanting for this old version of me and wanting for this old life that I lived. And now in this space that I'm in, like I said, I have these tools that feel more comfortable, that I can move through these emotions and really feel them. And I can also tell that part of myself, let's look at all the things that have happened not being that version. Let's look at all the stuff that's come into your life not being that version and what that feels like. Does this feel more authentic than this? And so I can start asking myself these questions and move. And so the fear doesn't stick around.
Oriana Broderick [00:28:55]:
As long it's still there. I don't think it will ever go away. I just think that it's how I respond to it now, how I can use the tools that I have, feel the fear. I don't. I always would push it away or try to find some solution for it. And it would be like this frantic energy where now it's like, okay, what am I afraid of? You know, can I feel these feelings? What does my body need? I'm able to move on from it. And almost, I guess, for lack of better terms, just take my power back. Like I said before, you just create a space for yourself that says, I am allowed to be this version of myself.
Oriana Broderick [00:29:34]:
Whether anybody sees it, or anybody hears it, or anybody loves it, or any of that doesn't matter, because I worked really hard to get here, and I've worked really hard to create a space that feels safe for me, that feels comfortable for me, that feels authentic to me, that is who I've always wanted to be. So, like you said, it's those pieces that you've pushed down and you've hidden to try to be whatever it is that everybody else wants you to be. As those parts come forth, it's scary when they do, because you have to look at them, you have to be really honest with yourself, and there's a lot of truth that's associated with it. But once you let them come forth and you allow them to be part of your journey and part of who you are, just opens up more space for that authentic part of you that always wanted to be there but couldn't based off of the things that you went through.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:30:25]:
Hi everyone. Doctor Erin here. So by now you're starting to get an idea of some of what the sacred illness paradigm is all about. The sacred illness paradigm is all about this question of what is your illness inviting you to become. What is it that lies within each of us that allows some of us to acquire so called spontaneous healing or remissions? And what is the key to unlocking that innate self healing capacity in each and every one of us? The sacred illness blueprint is something that I developed as a guide to help you walk through this process step by step to learn how to move deeper and deeper within yourself, to find these layers of dysregulation, of trauma, of limiting beliefs of things that you're holding within your system that are keeping you small, stuck and sick. Ultimately, if we ignore the mind body connection and are not exploring the ways in which our nervous system continues to be dysregulated or in a chronic state of activation and stress, any healing modality that we put into our body from the outside in is going to be less effective, if not effective at all. So if you are currently feeling stuck, lost, confused or disillusioned in your healing journey, feeling like you have tried so many things, you have tried so many modalities, you have worked with so many providers, and you're just not seeing the results you want, know that this is normal. And of course you're not, because this foundational mind body connection is often, if not always, missed in all of these modalities.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:31:51]:
And just like we can't build a house on top of sand, our healing cannot grow and blossom and be strong and successful if the foundation is not laid first. So rather than doing something different, but similar to everything you have tried before and expecting different results, I encourage you to consider doing something different altogether. This is where I invite you to explore the sacred Illness group coaching program. This is a low cost monthly membership option that I have created. It's constantly open, constantly enrolling where you can begin to explore this completely different way of engaging in your health, in your body, in your illness and in your healing process. What is provided inside this group coaching program is the blueprint that lays the foundation and lays the path out for you to follow, to begin to explore these deeper aspects of health, to truly get at the root of what is causing your illness and from there, allowing all other modalities to blossom so that you can actually start to see the changes and the healing take place in your body body that you have been expecting and wanting all along. If you're ready and want to learn more, head on over to aurorasomatic.com and at the top of the screen, click on group coaching where you can read all about it and become a member today. I can't wait to see you on the inside.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:33:02]:
And for now, let's get back to the podcast.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:33:07]:
What you're speaking, how you just said that really speaks to kind of what I've been viscerally feeling lately too. Because. Because a lot has been coming up for me and you know, really, I think the hero's journey is drawn as a circle, but I think it's really a spiral. Like, I think we're just, you know, we're going deeper into the layers as we go around every time. But I have, yeah, I've been coming up against stuff lately and it's, you know, it's kind of what I had said earlier, it's like you're taking the fear out of the fear. Like you can kind of, you can just kind of be with it. But every time you go around that spiral and you go into another layer, it's less unfamiliar. Like you still don't quite know because every layer, every spiral or whatever you want to call it is going to be different.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:33:48]:
It's going to have a different, like, trauma or emotion or it might be slightly. It could be like a variation on the theme, but it's always going to be sort of different. Every time you go around and you just start to. It starts to become familiar even though the outcome is unknown, you start to see that there's these like, kind of pillars, like big parts of the journey that you're going to go through, which is what we teach in the sacred illness program. We're teaching like, these are the expected kind of pillars that you're going to move through as you go through this journey. And it gives you those tools, like you said, to learn how to be with it in a different way. And I've been really feeling that in my body of like, it's hard to put to words how it feels because it's that difference between, like, how you reacted to something before you did any work versus how you react to it when you've done work. Like the stimulus is still there, it still bothers you, but it just, you react different to it.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:34:44]:
It's almost like your objective. Like, I feel more objective to my triggers, then I do feel like. Like I'm just like, like taken over by them, if that makes sense, you know? So instead of the trigger just being like, my whole system is offline and I'm like, part of it, it is me and I am it, you know, it's just like there's no separation and I'm just like, taken down instead. It's like I'm here, the trigger is there. I see it for what it is. I understand why it hurts. I can be with my body and with my emotions and I can think about it differently. I'm just in a different relationship with it.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:35:17]:
And I think that's the goal of a lot of this work, is to really get closer and closer and closer, obviously, to the core of who you are so that you as a person are not just overtaken and destroyed by these extra external things that, you know, you've been. You have been trained from childhood that, you know, these could make or break you. Like, you know, this thing is determining your worth, and if it's not there, then you're worthless. You're, it's just like, no, I. You, like, hold your autonomous worth and, like, does, like, right to be here, right to exist, right to take up space. And those things are just kind of like, you know, they're there. They're, you know, they're, they're outside of it, you know, and you can. The word I've been using a lot is discernment.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:35:59]:
Like, okay, this thing is obviously here for me. It's triggering me. It's scaring me. It's eliciting some fear response or some sort of activation in my system. So it's poking at something that I can look at, right? But I can discern, like, what part of it is for me and what part of it is not for me. And how do I, you know, how do I work with it and allow it to help me grow bigger and expand versus. To contract and, like, erase myself? And I think that's ultimately, like, the goal with fear is how to, again, to quote that quote that I'm misquoting is how can we accept that fear is an accompaniment of the journey. It's the rule, not the exception.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:36:40]:
It's going to be part of this work. But how do we just let it be there and, like, let it teach us and change us in the way that it's supposed to without, like, letting it completely bowl us over and take us away from ourselves and take us back out of a closer relationship with ourselves and instead put us into this space of having to show up differently or alter who we are? And so you kind of touched on it briefly with what you were saying, too, is what we have to remember is the familiar is always going to be very compelling. It's always going to be very tempting. And in the hero's journey image that I like to use, it's, like, referred to as temptations. Right? Like, there's all these temptations that start to come up as we get deeper into the journey and in the healing journey, I think it's really this temptation to go back to the known. You know, it's, again, it's Frodo wanting to go back to the Shire. Like, I don't want to do this anymore. I just want to go back to my people and, like, eat berries and be a silly little Frodo Baggins.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:37:38]:
And so I think we all have that desire, but what we have to realize is who we were when we got was the, you know, that was the conditions in which our illness was allowed to arise, so to speak. So all the programming we were holding in our body, all the trauma we have experienced up until that point, all of the limiting beliefs we have about ourselves and the world and other people, all the ways in which we limited ourselves and said yes when we wanted to say no or said no when we wanted to say yes. Like, all the ways we showed up that were not resonant and allowed trauma to be held in the body and allowed our nervous system to stay activated, which essentially is what makes us sick. That is the familiar. That's the person who got sick for that reason, and that body was holding all of those things that got us sick. And so it's. I think it's this. Like you said, it's a grief process, because when you start to go on this work, once you get to a certain point, you do come to this place of, like, I can't go back.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:38:41]:
Like, I can't be that person again. Because all of those things are, you know, eventually, inevitably, like, they took me to all the wrong places. I was in all of the wrong relationships. I was. I was working the wrong job. I was whatever. Like, I was. I was not living this life that feels good.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:38:56]:
And it's like, you. You can't go home again, right? Like, it's not the right place for you to live anymore. And it can be really uncomfortable because I think it can take time. It can really take time for us to know what the new home is. Like, where do we really. Who are we really now? Like, who am I? What. What does this life look like? Where do I call home, literally and figuratively, like, in my body? It's not for the faint of heart, right. It's hard to go into these layers of healing, and especially when you start to recognize that, you know, oh, crap, if I keep going, like, I can't turn back.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:39:27]:
Symptoms can start to flare up at that point, too, because, again, it's really interesting how fear. It's like, you know, the symptoms show up in the first place and get us on this journey in the first place, but then symptoms can show up to, like, get us off of the journey at the same time. Because it's like, all the stress, all the fear that's happening in your body your symptoms are going to flare up because your nervous system is activated. And so that starts to mess with our head. Well, if this was really working, I shouldn't be feeling sick. You know, we're trying to get off of this cycle of, like, going back to the familiar, going back to the familiar out of fear. But there's a lot working against us, you know, so to speak. And so that's why it's really important to have that understanding of this is inevitable.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:40:06]:
Symptoms flaring is inevitable. Getting scared is inevitable. It's an accompaniment, but it's not my guide. And we really talk about and hone in on this idea that illness has to be the guide. Like, if we are following our illness, we're trying to listen to what our illness is trying to say to us. We're trying to understand where our symptoms are coming from. And so we're trying to kind of, you know, let, let fear be over here, but not let it be the thing that's guiding us, because it's literally going to take us back to the old self, and illness is trying to take us to the new self. And so we're trying to follow illnesses lead and understand, like, why is it coming up? Where did it come from? What were the combinations of things that were being held in my body that caused this in the first place? It's just that constant resetting.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:40:50]:
You know, there's many crucial points in the journey, but I feel like there's one, there's often like one big crux moment where all the fear gets really big and it's sort of this major fork in a road where it's like either you continue into the unknown and eventually you come out the other side and you're no longer in this, like, unknown space. You've kind of settled into this new person, this new life. You know, you're starting to get some ground and come out on the other side, or you go back to the familiar and, you know, we know what happens over there. This question might be hard to answer, but when you, like, you know, you said you, there's probably been like three hero journey cycles for you so far in this work. And the first time or the second time you went through it, like, how did you know you got through that? It's almost like a dark night of the soul. Like that really intense crux moment of fear and doubt and all the things, and then all of a sudden it's like the dam breaks and you're on the other side of it. How did you know when you got through it. Was it obvious to you? Or maybe it wasn't that dramatic.
Oriana Broderick [00:41:49]:
I think the first time it was really obvious, because one of the big things that came up on top of all my symptoms was, like, this heavy feeling of depression, which we know is like our forced freeze in our bodies. Like, you've got to stop. You got to look, you've got to be here right now. And so I understood why that was there from a logical point, but going through it was really, really tough. And I think that was one of those really big moments where people will say, especially when you have something that is going on with you, that big mentally and emotionally, people are like, you know, I just took this medication and I was okay. And so that was one of those big moments where I was like, do I go and take the medication and quiet the symptom for a little bit so that I can move through it? Or, you know, I had to make a decision at that point, and I decided not to go that route. When I made that decision, to feel it and go through it and be with it, no matter how hard it was, when I came out on the other side of it, it was almost like a sigh of relief. Like, my body took a sigh of relief, and I was able to see.
Oriana Broderick [00:42:59]:
What's the saying that you use the forest for the trees? I was able to see it. I was able to see my world again. Like, okay, I'm okay. There's, you know, life to be had. I'm not, you know, dying. And all the things that were being, you know, that fear was bringing in for me that was really trying to push me back towards that old path. It was uncomfortable to be on the other side of it, too. So it was really uncomfortable in the dark night of the soul, and then additionally uncomfortable on the other side because that other side is so unknown.
Oriana Broderick [00:43:33]:
It was even more unknown than the dark night of the soul because I think there, even though that was probably one of the biggest ones I'd ever had, I think throughout my life, I'd always had these pockets of sadness and these pockets of really big emotions that I worked through on my own. But being on the other side of it, more on the raw version of who I was, rather than being on the other side of sadness, just as the same version, I was, like, pushing it away or pushing it down and then just continuing on with the person that I felt like was masking. I was masking who I truly was. So it was like running around with no clothes on, right? It was like being naked, because I didn't know what. What do I do with all of this information now? You know, I have all these things about myself that I have to look at. It's like this woman that I listened to, she says eight questions that you probably have never asked yourself. And one of those questions is, if someone told you that you could be healed today, if you were willing to let go of things in your life, like jobs, relationships, all the things that we talk about in our work, are you willing to let go of those things if somebody told you you could be healed on the other side of that? If your answer is no, then you're not ready for what you're going to go through anyways. And so it was like that part of the hero's journey that was, can I let go of all of these things that I've been holding on to? And sometimes it's not as big as a job.
Oriana Broderick [00:45:10]:
Sometimes it's not as big as a relationship. Sometimes it's subtle things like, can I let go of this version of me? Can I allow myself to fall apart? Can I allow myself to be vulnerable and let go of this version of me that says, I have to be strong, I have to do this, I have to do these things. And when you get to that side of asking yourself that question, it is another. It's like the next stepping stone to the next part of the hero's journey is. It's like the fear keeps you from saying, yes, I'm willing to let go of this version of myself. And if we can't let go of that limiting belief of that reason why we made that our identity, then it's almost like you get stuck there and be. I think each step is being with it.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:45:56]:
Yeah, I can relate to so much of that. I feel like I'm in that space right now, like that getting through the really, like, tough part of it, and then now I'm kind of on that other side. Like, am I gonna go all the way? Or am I gonna, like, what am I gonna do? Because I don't want to necessarily go all the way. It's easy to get stuck in a rut on that other side, I think, because, yeah, it is this, like, it's this huge relief when you get through and you. It's like, again, that, like, clarity where you just get this objective perspective on, like, okay, here I am. This is what all that was about. This is, you know, this is who I am now. And these are the things I'm releasing.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:46:32]:
And I think kind of part of what we're talking about, too, is two things. Number one is that integration period of, like, giving ourselves that time to kind of get used to that new person. And, like, the new thoughts and feelings and way of being in the world that person is going to show up as. So we can't just, like, charge ahead because we have to give our nervous system time for this to become familiar. Because if we move too fast, it's like, well, I'm not used to this. And that's one of the ways in which we can falter and go back because we move too fast and we just, like, are on to the next thing. The second piece is taking action, though, and not taking action in, like, okay, what's the next level of the healing journey? It's taking action as that new person. And so that would be following through on the things that you've uncovered.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:47:14]:
Right. Like you said, it's like, I really am going to now practice believing that people can help me. I'm really going to now practice believing that I am enough. And what does that look like? I really am going to practice the fact that I deserve more in my marriage. And so I'm going to whatever, right? Or, like, I deserve better at my job and so I'm going to quit. And so there's that action piece. And, you know, I think that's part of the dark night of the soul stuff, for sure. Like, there's a lot of.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:47:41]:
There's a lot of, like, stuff happening in that moment, I think dark night of the soul, though, to me, feels a little bit more of a liminal space. Like, you're kind of between. Like, you've done all the work and then you're kind of, like, in that space before you emerge on the other side. It's like the cocoon phase, right? But when you come out, it's like, okay, now you have your wings. Are you going to fly? Are you going to let a bird eat you? Like, what's your. What's your choice here? And so I think that's the hard part, is to, you know, again, it's like you kind of touched on you. I mean, you kind of said it in so many words. Like, there's not really, like, an easy part of the journey, you know, like, coming out on the other side.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:48:13]:
There's harder parts, for sure. There's more challenging parts. But every step until you are fully embodying that new self is challenging. And fear is part of every step. And so again, we have. We have that kind of mapped out in our sacred illness methodology of how fear is going to show up at every point in the journey and what to do. And so taking those actions is really like, we talk about having a daily practice or having some sort of way in which you're continuously kind of like, you know, with yourself and practicing these things and how you're going to show up. Because otherwise, yeah, it's easy to go back.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:48:48]:
And this word came up on one of our group coaching calls recently, which is surrender. I think this is something we talk about a lot and is also very uncomfortable, you know, again, I think the unknown is an act of surrender. Like, like pursuing, moving into unknown spaces, moving into unknown modalities. Moving into unknown territory is in some sense a form of surrender because you're like, I'm gonna just try. And I don't know where I'm gonna land. I'm just gonna try. I think it's even harder when you're moving into these liminal spaces of like the trans, you know, before the big transformation happens. But you've done all the work and you're in this liminal space and you're like, where is this going? Like, I've done all this work.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:49:28]:
I've peeled back all these layers. I see all the things. What does this look like? So there's a lot of surrendering to this process. And because our nervous systems are wanting familiarity and known spaces, it tries to control stuff. It really is. I think the hardest thing about this work is that we are working against our nervous system's default way of being pretty much all the time through this whole thing. We're trying to reprogramming it. We're trying to replace old thoughts and feelings so that in and of itself is like changing up the nervous system and the way it's showing up and wiring and firing.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:50:04]:
But then we're going against it's, you know, very, very primitive way of surviving in the world because, you know, ultimately we're not going to be eaten by a, like a saber toothed tiger anymore, right? Like that kind of threat just doesn't exist. And so the way that our. But our nervous system is still responding as though, you know, I don't know, the, the tyrant boss is that saber toothed tiger. It's like, no, he's not going to eat you. I mean, he might, but he probably won't, you know, he's just a jerk, right? And he reminds you of this thing or you have this limiting belief or this, you know, this fear that if you quit your job or if you show up in a certain way, then people aren't going to love you, and you're going to be rejected and abandoned, whatever, right? Like, so that fear feels the same. And so what we're going in and saying to the nervous system is like, I know it feels like that, but it's not. You're going to live, you know, ultimately, we're trying to show the nervous system you are safe. You will survive on the other side.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:50:59]:
This is not actually the. It's not life threatening. Right? Like, it's. We're trying to, again, take the fear out of the fear and say, you're going to survive this thing. You will get to the other side. One of the activities or ways to work with that fear that could be really helpful is to do, like, a worst case scenario type thing. Like, what is the worst case scenario? If this. If I do this thing that I'm feeling intuitively pulled toward or feeling like I'm supposed to, like, you know, this is a step I.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:51:25]:
I need to take in my healing journey. What is the worst case scenario? That, like, the fear is kind of about right. So, like, with the boss again, it could be like, I'll never get a job again. I'll never get paid. You know, I'll never make this kind of money again. I'll lose my health insurance, or the boss will be mad at me or what will my co. We can just kind of work through it, and then we can ask ourselves, like, okay, so if that happened, is that is, like, what would you do? Like, could you, could you manage that? Could you get through it? And usually, most of the time, it's like, yeah, that would suck, or that would be really, really hard, but I could get through that. It's almost like deconstructing the fear.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:52:05]:
Like you said, it's being with that fear, kind of asking yourself, what am I afraid of? Because when we do that, we're really taking. We're looking at it in this way that maybe we never have before. If we don't look at fear in that way, fear is good at, like, it's almost like you feel so scared and it feels so overwhelming and it feels so compelling to just, like, listen to the fear. But then when you really listen, like, when you really listen to what it's trying to tell you, you're like, wait, that's not very logical. Or that's, you know, that's not actually true. Or, like, I would actually be okay, this is, this isn't, isn't the level of threat that, like, it feels so much bigger until we really look at it. And again, it's not saying that sometimes the fears are really big. You know, like, I'm thinking about, like, domestic abuse situations or just, you know, there can be really dangerous, really terrible, really challenging situations that people are trying to get away from that are really hard to get away from.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:53:01]:
But ultimately, you know, I think if we break it down, it's like there are resources. There's always resources, people ways. There's always an option, right? And so it's leaning into that, you know, and realizing that even if the worst case scenario happened, you would survive. And as we were saying, as you go around these spirals of the hero's journey, it does get easier with time because you start to, like, get familiar with, it's almost like you're befriending your fear. Like, okay, hi, you know, like, hello, darkness, my old friend. I know you. I know how to be with you. I know how to listen to you.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:53:34]:
And it's almost like talking to a scared child, because ultimately, that's what our fear is, or these younger versions of ourselves that are, you know, reminding us of, like, remember when you did that and this happened? Don't do that because you're going to get in trouble or whatever. We're just, we're getting used to it. We're getting familiar with it. And so it gets easier. It's different. It has every spiral, every cycle has its own challenges, but we just become more. I think the word you use was, like, skillful. We, like, we have skills, we have tools we can use more and more.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:54:02]:
And the more we practice them, the more we implement them, the easier it all becomes. So fear is going to be part of any healing journey, no matter what you're doing, no matter what modality, no matter what kind of doctor, no matter what you're. How you're engaging in it, simply because illness itself is going to put you into a different space. Initially, most of us are going to do familiar things. We're going to work with familiar providers and, like, do what we're familiar with in terms of healing modalities. And then a lot of us get to this place of feeling like there's got to be something more. And then that's, to me, when, like, the real heroes journey is kicking off because the real hero's journey is about truly going on an adventure where you don't know where you're going, so you're not doing things that are familiar. You're not working with people or doing modalities that are familiar.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:54:47]:
You're moving into spaces that are unknown. And in our work, that unknown space is yourself. You're getting into your body and your mind in a way that you probably never have before. You're moving into a deeper place within yourself. You're coming into a deeper relationship with yourself in ways that you have likely never experienced before. And it's scary, right? You know, I think it's in a way, I don't want to say easier, but almost like focusing outward on outward things, like tangible. Like, I take this pill at 07:00 a.m. and I take, you know, I eat this food at these times, like when we have this, like, structured algorithmic sort of treatment plan.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:55:22]:
Again, it's that control. It feels good. It's like, I know what to expect. I know what to predict. This journey is like, God only knows where this is going to go, right? It's a very unknown space, and there's no, like, we. I think that's why, you know, our program can be helpful because there is some structure to it, there's some guidelines as to, like, this is what you can likely expect based on the work we've done with people for many years. These are the pillars, these are the different steps and things you're going to encounter. But it's like, fill in the gaps between that, right? Like, aside from these kind of, like, known checkpoints, you're going to cross every, you know, throughout the journey.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:55:59]:
It's, you know, anyone's guess where you're going to go with this work. And so it is this allowing yourself to accept the journey, engage in the journey, and no fear is going to be a companion. It's like walking beside you. It's like your shadow. I mean, it is your shadow, right? It's with you the whole time, and it's going to keep being like, are you sure? Are you sure? And then it's going to get louder and louder and louder. The deeper into the unknown you go, until there's that threshold and you cross into a new person, a new. A new way of being. You kind of see the forest for the trees, you see where you're at, you see kind of what this was all about.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:56:34]:
And then from there, it's. It's a matter of choosing, am I going to now step into this person or what? But, you know, I think the nice thing is that you actually have a choice. You, you can make a conscious choice versus being just kind of subjected to it, because it's just the programming. It's just how you, you know, automatically show up versus, again, like, having that more objective perspective and saying like, okay, I see now this person, this way of showing up in the world is what got me to sickness. I now have a choice to continue that person or to choose this other path. And that's not to say it's easy. It's not. But it's freeing when we can start to feel like we have more control once again, you know, once we get to that other side, versus being subjected and kind of at the whim of, you know, an unknown illness, an incurable illness, at the whim of external treatments, giving our power away to external things for the rest of our life, essentially.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:57:30]:
Thanks so much for tuning in to another episode of the Sacred Illness podcast. If you find this information shared here, inspirational and educational, please share it with those you think would benefit from this work. To take this work deeper yourself, check out our website, www.aurorasomatic.com, where you can explore our coaching community and course options. And don't forget to subscribe to this channel where new content is coming out all the time intended to inspire, awaken, and help you deepen your relationship with yourself, your life, and your world.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:58:01]:
We'll see you next time.
