Stacey Waterbury [00:00:00]:
There was something missing, but it was me all along. You know, I was missing. I was missing. My trueness was missing. And where is that? You know, that my trueness is just buried. It was just buried under all of these reactions, triggers from my nervous system. I realized one day, it's kind of like, I guess you could say, like, I put down the pen where it was, like, for a second, like, okay, let's stop for a minute. You already know it's in there.
Stacey Waterbury [00:00:25]:
Trust yourself. What do you. What do you think, Stacey? What do you think? Don't worry about everything else. Like, I have notebooks on top of notebooks, and, you know, everybody and what they say and, like, all these different things, I'm like, yeah, there's the answer. There's the answer. But then I realized I had to trust me because I knew the answer. And all this information I got was great because it brought me to where I am today. But I had to sit with me and be like, okay, I trust you.
Stacey Waterbury [00:00:48]:
You know, like, where's. I knew I was just looking for me. I was looking. I was looking for me. I needed me to trust me, and I needed to just listen. My body was telling a story. Sure was, you know, and I just wasn't listening for a long, long time.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:01:05]:
So the big question is, we know spontaneous remissions and so called miracle cures exist. We also know they aren't so spontaneous after all. I'm living proof of this. Having cured my quote unquote incurable illness, there's something to how this happens. So how do we as humans with chronic symptoms, tap into this so called miraculous healing capacity? That is the question, and this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Doctor Erin Hayford, and welcome to the Sacred Illness podcast. Before we begin today's episode, just my standard medical disclaimer. This podcast is intended for educational and information purposes only.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:01:47]:
The content should not be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always consult with a qualified healthcare professional.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:01:55]:
Regarding any medical concerns.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:01:59]:
Hi, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the sacred illness podcast. This is Doctor Erin, and I'm just hopping on real quick to let you know that this is a part two of a two part series. Part one was just the previous episode. It's an interview with Stacy, who is taking us through her journey with mcas or a masked activation syndrome. So if you didn't get to catch the first part of this, go back to the previous episode, give it a listen, and then come back here when you're ready. All right, let's go on to part two.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:02:24]:
Whenever I'm talking to folks on the podcast here, it's. I'm always curious about what, you know, how does some of us make it to where we are, to where we get some relief and get some healing and we just keep going, right? Because it is. It's a journey of keep going, keep going, keep going. And it does. It sounds like. And it feels like there's this, like, this kind of energy in those of us who keep going, that we just have this kind of, like, insatiable curiosity or just like this unwillingness to accept that this is what life is, you know, because there has to be some of that to keep going because it is. It's self generated. It's a self generated journey as you're.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:03:02]:
And, yeah, I'm so happy about this, this physician's assistant that you had because what a. I mean, that's so amazing to have a doctor or a medical provider to have that sort of faith in their patient and to really, like, encourage them and believe in them and support, you know, it's so different when they're supporting you and they're going home and doing research based on what you're saying. I feel like that's just a very unique, not very common dynamic.
Stacey Waterbury [00:03:25]:
So very glad that you had that been. If I didn't have gone through what other people have gone through, because these stories are horrible.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:03:33]:
Yeah.
Stacey Waterbury [00:03:33]:
That people and that. That what you get in the medical field. And I, you know, I'm sure there was times where he was like, you know, but he. He allowed space for me to, you know, exist and have an opinion.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:03:48]:
Yep.
Stacey Waterbury [00:03:48]:
You know, and to this day, he still does, you know, and, like, when I show up and I have, like, temperature regulation issues. Yes. And that's something that still is kind of there. I can be reactive off of, like, cold weather and different things like that. So last time I went and I was like, my feet, you know, we talked about it and he just laughs and he's like. He's like, it might be just one of those things, Stacey, that we're just going to have to, you know, and I'm like, I'm doing so well with all the other stuff. He's like, it's okay. And to have that support, I don't know where I would have been, especially after what would happen with my husband.
Stacey Waterbury [00:04:20]:
Like, he did that whole thing with me, so. And I feel so much for people who have been through that, really just going to doctors after doctor. No. And I've had those experiences. He wanted me to go to a cardiologist, and that cardiologist was, like, just very dismissive, and I didn't even want to go because I was like, I'm telling you, you know, I know it's my autonomic nervous system. It's not. They're not going to find anything wrong. Like, I need to deal with that.
Stacey Waterbury [00:04:44]:
And he's like, just do me a favor and go, yeah, but just so we can make sure that everything looks okay, right? So I was like, fine. But I also had that experience. And the cardiologist at one point in time says to me, he's like, you're so anxious. And I broke out in hives in my chest. The whole thing was very triggering, and I had, like, the adrenaline dump. And I wanted to say to him, that's because you're making me feel this way. Like, I. You're literally making me feel crazy in this moment.
Stacey Waterbury [00:05:11]:
Like, I just. I remember the last time I went back to him, I said, I'm just here for you to just say the words to me that I know all these tests were fine because I knew they were going to be. Yep, they're fine. And I said. I said something, and he's like, he's like, I just think. And he talked about anxiety, and I was like, okay. I'm like, it's. It's fine.
Stacey Waterbury [00:05:29]:
I said, it's just very real to me, and I know what happens, and I just left it at that. And I told my physician assistant, he just, you know, he's like, I get it, you know, but it is. It's the answer to everything. So it's just anxiety, you know, that doesn't make sense.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:05:45]:
No, right? It's like the IB's of the mental emotional world. Like, if we can't figure out what's wrong with your gut, it's. It's IB's, you know, which is like, well, what does that mean? You know, it's an anxiety. And it's not said in this way because anxiety is technically a thing, but it's like, but what does that mean? Like, why is anxiety happening? What is causing this to show up? Which I think is kind of like what you were saying, too, just about your journey. It was sort of this, okay, this is helping. Like, the VU is helping or, you know, this is helping or that is helping. But what is really driving the problem in the first place? You know, it's just that deeper. Like, but why? But why? But why? And I think that's.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:06:23]:
That is, you know, where modern medicine is not. They're just not going deep enough, right? Like, they're not going to the source. They're just kind of staying at that surface. Like, well, you have hives and your heart rate's up. So that on the surface is anxiety. Like, it's like a iceberg, right? And they're looking at what they can see and it's like, well, that's anxiety, but like. But what's underneath? Like, how. Where is it coming from? And that's, you know, if you dig deeper, you find this other stuff.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:06:47]:
So I think one of the big things that came up that hasn't yet in this podcast is spiritual bypassing because I think that is such a real thing that we can do to ourselves that our family members can, and it's all well meaning, right? But it's, again, it's that, like, just keep it here kind of thing. Like, and I think it also speaks to human beings general incapacity for discomfort, right? Like, we are really not good at it. And whether that's with ourselves or with our loved ones. And, you know, we don't like to see people suffer. We don't like to see people hurting. And so we try to focus on that good thing, like with your husband, like, well, just be grateful that he's alive. And it's like, of course, of course. Like you said, course I'm grateful he's alive.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:07:28]:
And there's this other really huge reality to what's going on that is not the most positive thing in my life right now. And so I think you were kind of speaking to this definition that I give to the healing journey. The goal of the healing journey is to become whole people, which is to say that we're making space for all of it, right? Like the joy, the beauty, the gratitude, but also the. The ugly parts, the grief. I mean, and it's not even ugly. I guess that's kind of derogatory. But it's the hard stuff, right? The uncomfortable stuff, because that's always going to be part of it. And especially for those of us who've experienced trauma, nothing is going to take that away.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:08:08]:
That's always going to be something that hurts and it's going to be a bad memory, and it's going to cause experiences, you know, or it alters our path. And so I think it's, again, you know, spiritual bypassing, toxic positivity, modern medicine, like all these things that keep us up here, right? It's like we need to go deeper. We need to learn how to, you know, in somatic language in doctor Levine's language, it's expanding, or I guess it's polyvagal theory. All these, you know, all these people who do this work, it's like expanding that capacity, expanding that window of tolerance for all of the things, because otherwise, I think your story with your husband kind of perfectly demonstrates how easy it is, so to speak, to go back to the old behavior, kind of the old way of coping with things. If that new way hasn't been well worn into our system yet. It was an immediate, like, your system just went back to, everything's fine. I mean, you went into survival mode, which makes sense. I mean, you really were in a place of needing to just survive for a while while you were figuring out this new dynamic.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:09:11]:
So in some way, shape or form, that's very normal. But because of your. The way that your nervous system was functioning in survival mode previously, like, all that came back on board, too. So how long was that journey for you between, like, the aneurysm? And I am so grateful that he survived and also that you, you know, came to the other side of it personally as well. How long of a journey was that for you from the moment of the aneurysm to, like, getting back on track and getting your symptoms back under control?
Stacey Waterbury [00:09:40]:
So I would say it was. It was so we're going on four years now. So I would say it took a good two years for me to really, like. Like you said, I just. I just went back to what I know, and that was survival, you know, and it was just, that's how it goes, you know, and this is how I'm gonna do it. This is what works. This is what's safe. You know, my body was like, no, no.
Stacey Waterbury [00:10:05]:
And so I want to say it's. It was about two years, and it just. And it just. All these little symptoms, they just crept in, and then they were yelling, and then it was yelling, and I was like. And it took once again, you know, yelling of my body, like, when my mast cells got activated for the first time for me to go, oh, okay, here I am, you know, what's. What's going on? And this is not working, you know, it's just not. And, you know, knowing that, knowing that capacity thing like you were talking about and that window of tolerance, and also I thought that my window of tolerance had to be like, I don't know, like, I thought my window of tolerance was, I don't know if this makes sense, but it had to be, like, so big, like, tolerant of all things you know, like, and not have any feelings. So, like, you know what I mean? Like, I had to be tolerant of all things, and I couldn't.
Stacey Waterbury [00:10:59]:
I couldn't. And I shamed myself if I went out of my window of tolerance. So you were playing a part, and you were doing what you had to do and pretending and stuffing things down. And now, you know, with that as actually my window tolerance kind of shrunk. I can spend more time in there because I allow myself to come out of that and actually feel, actually exist, actually have said those other feelings and knowing what I'm capable of and what I'm not and honoring my body and just listening. But it's a lot.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:11:36]:
It is a lot. And I think you said it perfectly when you said you kind of went back to old behaviors, you said, this is safe. And I think that's really important to highlight is even though technically it's like a way of being in the world that's causing physical symptoms, and it's not you being authentic with your emotions. What is familiar is safe, and your nervous system was familiar with that. Right. And so it was a default pathway. And because we, you know, I think I say this on every episode, but it bears repeating, which is that the nervous system does not like the unknown. And the nervous system is interesting because it's not this, like, autonomous organ system.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:12:15]:
Right? Like, it. It's a responding system. So it's not really doing anything that we're not telling it to do, so to speak. It's. It's giving. It's giving back what we. What it has received. It's programmed.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:12:26]:
Right. So it's kind of this response network, essentially. I had a patient once say that it's like AI, because AI is like, you feed something into it and then it spits something back, and it just keeps kind of responding to what you're giving it. And it's like, yeah, one center. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. So it's essentially. It's just.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:12:44]:
Yeah, it's responding. So if there's these constant inputs of, like, this is unsafe and this is unsafe and this is unsafe, and this, you know, so it's. It's starting to respond in this way where it's saying, okay, so you're saying everything is unsafe. I'm going to constantly be in survival. Survival mode then. And you. I think this is how we had actually met is. I made a post on Instagram about mcas, and I had kind of reflected on the conversation I had with someone else who has this condition or syndrome and was essentially saying, what I've noticed is there's this feeling of, like, nothing is safe in the world because of what happens with trauma.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:13:18]:
You know, like, the tr. The specific trauma or traumas that have happened in people's lives who end up developing mcas is this feeling of, like, nothing is safe. I have to be on the defense for everything, and then eventually the body starts to kind of reflect that back to, like, okay, yeah, so this scent is not safe. This, you know, deodorant is not safe. This food is not safe. This bug, this flower, this whatever.
Stacey Waterbury [00:13:38]:
Um, this everything.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:13:39]:
Yeah. And so it's. If we take away how terrible that is on a reality level, it's actually very wise on a physiological level, because the body's like, okay, you're telling me nothing safe. Great. I will defend you to the tooth and nail. Like, beyond what, your back? Yeah. Like, like you said, the beginning, it's like, it's way too much. It's like this insane, overzealous response, but it's, again, this intelligent response given what it's been inputted with, essentially.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:14:08]:
So, yeah, so it's kind of taking it back to, again, like, what are the inputs? Like, what's being given to my nervous system? How is it responding? Or why is it responding in this way? And I think another thing that you said, too, that's really great to highlight is you did the diet. You did, you know, you cleaned up your environment, which I think is important, like you said, just in general. And it really highlights how this is how I think of it, is the nervous system, is that. It's a foundation. Right? It's like, it's that iceberg analogy again. That's kind of the piece under the surface that we have to get to. And then those other things are important. I think they're part of this puzzle that we all put together in our healing journey of, like, what are all the pieces that are going to fit for me to help my body feel better? But that nervous system is the essential layer.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:14:55]:
Like, it's that foundational piece where if your nervous system continues to feel like nothing is safe, you know, you could eat, like, one carrot for the rest of your life and nothing else, and it's still going to not feel, you know, it's going to eventually start to hate that carrot, you know? Yes, exactly. It sounds like you, I think you said, and so correct me if I'm wrong, that, like, all those things helped some, but you had that continuous feeling of, like, there's something else here.
Stacey Waterbury [00:15:20]:
Yes.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:15:20]:
Yeah.
Stacey Waterbury [00:15:21]:
And that's basically it. It's, you know, like, it's that feeling, too. Like, I don't know about you, but even, like, growing up and not realizing that you're in survival mode this whole time. But I always had this. This feeling inside that there was something more. There was something more. To me, there was something more. And it was like I was just constantly being held back and living in that place, you know? And so then that kind of became, like, my.
Stacey Waterbury [00:15:48]:
I think, my way of life, though. It's like. And then I get sick, and there's just. You're doing these things, but there's something more. Stacey, what is that? What is it? There's something missing. Something's missing. What is it? You know, like, yay for, like, the people that love to research and do all these things and all of that, but it can be a little daunting, and it can be a little too much, because also, you're feeding into that. I'm not safe.
Stacey Waterbury [00:16:11]:
I need all the information.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:16:12]:
Yes.
Stacey Waterbury [00:16:13]:
So that I can feel safe.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:16:15]:
Yes.
Stacey Waterbury [00:16:16]:
So where. What I began to learn was there was something missing, but it was me all along. You know? I was missing. I was missing. My trueness was missing. And where is that? You know, that my trueness is just buried. It was just buried under all of these reactions, triggers from my nervous system. I realized one day, it's kind of like, I guess you could say, like, I put down the pen where it was, like, for a second, like, okay, let's stop for a minute.
Stacey Waterbury [00:16:43]:
You already know it's in there. Trust yourself. What do you. What do you think, Stacey? What do you think? Don't worry about everything else. Like, I have notebooks on top of notebooks, and, you know, everybody and what they say and, like, all these different things. I'm like, yeah, there's the answer. There's the answer. But then I realized I had to trust me because I knew the answer.
Stacey Waterbury [00:17:02]:
And all this information I got was great because it brought me to where I am today. But I had to sit with me and be like, okay, I trust you, you know, like, where's. I knew. I was just looking for me. I was looking. I was looking for me. I needed me to trust me, and I needed to just listen. My body was telling a story.
Stacey Waterbury [00:17:19]:
Sure was, you know, and I just wasn't listening for a long, long time.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:17:26]:
Hi, everyone. Doctor Erin here. So by now, you're starting to get an idea of some of what the sacred illness paradigm is all about. The sacred illness paradigm is all about this question of what is your illness inviting you to become? What is it that lies within each of us that allows some of us to acquire so called spontaneous healing or remissions? And what is the key to unlocking that innate self healing capacity in each and every one of us? The sacred illness blueprint is something that I developed as a guide to help you walk through this process step by step to learn how to move deeper and deeper within yourself, to find these layers of dysregulation, of trauma, of limiting beliefs of things that your whole holding within your system that are keeping you small, stuck and sick. Ultimately, if we ignore the mind body connection and are not exploring the ways in which our nervous system continues to be dysregulated or in a chronic state of activation and stress, any healing modality that we put into our body from the outside in is going to be less effective, if not effective at all. So if you are currently feeling stuck, lost, confused or disillusioned in your healing journey, feeling like you have tried so many things, you have tried so many modalities, you have worked with so many providers and you're just not seeing the results you want, know that this is normal. And of course you're not, because this foundational mind body connection is often, if not always, missed in all of these modalities. And just like we can't build a house on top of sand, our healing cannot grow and blossom and be strong and successful if the foundation is not laid first.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:19:02]:
So rather than doing something different, but similar to everything you have tried before and expecting different results, I encourage you to consider doing something different altogether. This is where I invite you to explore the sacred illness group coaching program. This is a low cost monthly membership option that I have created. It's constantly open, constantly enrolling where you can begin to explore this completely different way of engaging in your health, in your body, in your illness and in your healing process. What is provided inside this group coaching program is the blueprint that lays the foundation and lays the path out for you to follow, to begin to explore these deeper aspects of health, to truly get at the root of what is causing your illness and from there, allowing all other modalities to blossom so that you can actually start to see the changes and the healing take place in your body that you have been expecting and wanting all along. If you're ready and want to learn more, head on over to aurorasomatic.com and at the top of the screen, click on group coaching where you can read.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:19:59]:
All about it and become a member.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:20:01]:
Today I can't wait to see you on the inside. And for now, let's get back to the podcast.
Stacey Waterbury [00:20:08]:
I was too afraid. Fear is something, and when you live with it your whole entire life, it's just. It's really hard because I feel like I don't know what it's like to not be fearful. You start maybe trying to come out of that and then something happens again, like my husband and that thing, and it triggers me right back into that because you live in this place and then it was like, he's gonna die every day, you know, like waking up, making sure his stomach's, you know, or his chest is rising, you know, like that. Well, of course that's gonna bring me right back to like, what we said before and I'm back in that survivor. I have been afraid, I'm pretty sure, since the day that I graced this earth. And I always thought that, oh, you know, like, oh, woe is you, Stacey. You know, like, kind of thing, if I ever had those feelings.
Stacey Waterbury [00:20:58]:
But then I realized that I don't know, in those feelings, like, just that truth, it's okay because I'm also like, I don't sit and I don't sit and stay there. That makes sense. And those feelings of like, I just want to. I want to. To acknowledge them. And then when I give them, I give them space to exist, they kind of just.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:21:18]:
Yeah. Isn't that amazing? Yeah, so amazing. All they need is to be. It's like a little kid, you know, all they need is to be like, oh, you're having a bad. You know, this.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:21:27]:
That hurt.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:21:27]:
That really hurt you. And then they're. I see that in my three year old, like, the second I'm like, that was. That was really hard, wasn't it? He's like, yep. Then he's done. That's it, right? It's just. That's all it needs is that acknowledgement.
Stacey Waterbury [00:21:36]:
And it just need that acknowledges to be acknowledgement. Yeah. To be like, okay. Yeah. And it was very real. That's what I've taught myself, too, and learned, you know, like, this was real.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:21:47]:
Yeah.
Stacey Waterbury [00:21:48]:
Saying things out loud isn't. Is sometimes what you need, you know? And that was so hard for me, you know, like saying it out loud and the anxiety it would bring and like, oh, and then you're just bringing it to life, but not because you're going to sit in it and like, swim in all that muck and that. All that bad stuff. You're bringing it to life so that it can be put to bed in a way, essentially.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:22:08]:
Yeah, exactly. To release it.
Stacey Waterbury [00:22:10]:
And.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:22:11]:
Yeah.
Stacey Waterbury [00:22:11]:
Yeah, you have to.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:22:12]:
You do. Yeah. And it, you. Something you had said earlier, too, is so I feel like so many people were probably like, yes, that is exactly how I feel because I've heard it so many times from other people is that fear of if I actually look at it, if I actually allow it, like, then it's real, and then what? You know, and, like, that's a, that's a terrifying feeling. And I think it's because we, you know, I'm sure there's a million reasons why, but one of the things I have seen is there's this feeling of, like, that feels so terrible, and I don't know how to deal with terrible because I was never taught it or it was modeled very poorly for me. And so there's this feeling of, like, if I allow terrible to come out, that's I'm going to be stuck there for the rest of my life, and I don't want that. And so we choose what you were saying before, which is numbness. You know, like, I have this major tolerance for everything, but I'm numb to it.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:22:59]:
I don't feel anything. And, like, that's comfortable to us because it's like, well, I'm not feeling anything, so it's fine. But if we, if we kind of, like you said, kind of bring it in and narrow that down and we really, like, get real and actually allow ourselves to feel, then we're like, oh, actually, I can't really tolerate very much at all because I never learned how to actually sit with that feeling. And, like, you know, we have to mod. We what? Like, what we understand now with emotions is obviously there's, like a peak and then a, you know, it fall. Like, it gets big and then it goes away if we allow ourselves to be with it. And it doesn't mean it's not going to come back, but, like, you know, there's waves to things. And so what we, you know, and you can see that in, again, in kids, in little kids with tantrums, there's obviously, like, a rise and then eventually it falls, but only if you allow yourself to be with it, right? Like, if you allow yourself to feel it and to be with it, eventually, once it's, like, expressed and, you know, acknowledged, it will, it will fall.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:23:54]:
But what so many of us experienced as kids was we'd have the feeling, and then it would get stuck there in that peak or, like, in that buildup because no one was there to hold space for it or we got punished for it, or we got shamed for it or something happened where it just wasn't safe for it to come out. And so we stopped it right there. And so our experience is, like, this is terrible. It feels terrible. The experience of it is terrible in all ways. So I'm just not going to feel it, and I'm definitely not going to let it out. And then that creates that story of, like. Or it just.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:24:25]:
It becomes that unknown of, like. So I have no idea what it would actually look like to go into that because I've never gone past, you know, this. This far of an experience of that emotion.
Stacey Waterbury [00:24:35]:
Where is that?
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:24:37]:
Yeah, exactly.
Stacey Waterbury [00:24:38]:
So scary.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:24:38]:
So scary.
Stacey Waterbury [00:24:39]:
That's the. That's exactly what you said. It's the unknown.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:24:42]:
Yeah.
Stacey Waterbury [00:24:43]:
I don't like the unknown. I don't like to not know things, but in a weird way, I spent so much time not knowing things because I did that stop, you know, because. Or I wasn't allowed to, or I wasn't given the space to and all of that, but it is. It's the unknown. And what does that look like? And then all of a sudden, you know, the first time you. You step into that and you say something out loud, and I just remember, and I remember I was just looking up above on the wall as I was saying it, and I. And I stopped, and I was like, this is so uncomfortable. It was so heavy to bring something out like that.
Stacey Waterbury [00:25:20]:
And then when it was all said and done and I walked away from it, that moment, I felt lighter, and I was like, oh, so, so heavy, so uncomfortable, you know? But then all of a sudden, there was just this, like, I was like, wow, I want to do that again.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:25:39]:
Yeah.
Stacey Waterbury [00:25:40]:
You know? Yes, I want to do that again, actually. And then my nervous system is like, oh, wait, that wasn't so bad. So then you're showing your nervous system. Oh, okay, wait. Maybe I don't have to put up the alarms because it's alarming. The whole time you're pushing that out of you and saying, you know, your truth, and it's like, no, no, no, no, no. Back it up, Stacey. We don't do this.
Stacey Waterbury [00:26:02]:
Like, no, no, no. Push through. And then your nervous system is like, oh, wait a second. And then it makes it a little bit easier, and the next time you go in, it's a little bit easier. And then another time, it may be really bad if it's a really big thing, you know? But, um. And I think that's where, too, like, because I'm not very good with all my memories, like, I don't. I am from being in fight or flight, and I learned, you know, disassociating and, like, stopping things and then just, like, coming out of my body so I didn't have to be in that moment and experience it. So that's where Emdr therapy came in, you know, and was helpful, but not knowing some stuff, but then still releasing it is, you know, like they explained, I didn't need to remember all things to be able to release them because I thought, well, I'm just, I'm never going to get.
Stacey Waterbury [00:26:51]:
I don't remember anything, you know, I remember things, but not as much as other people do. And sometimes the things I remember, only bad things, you know, but I just. She was like, you'll be able to do, don't have to. She's shining light on things, that it's still there. She's like, it's back there. And so. And I would just all of a sudden feel just lighter.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:27:11]:
Yes.
Stacey Waterbury [00:27:11]:
I'm like, okay, here it is. You know, like, here it is. What a gift you can give yourself, right to, you know, just love yourself, know that you're worth it and that you can heal and show yourself. You matter, you're worthy. Those, and those things, like, they were so uncomfortable to me, you know? And the more and more that I believe it, the more and more my health, I just thrive, you know? And like I said, still, there's still moments. You can still have moments, but I no longer shame myself. I don't. It's not like, oh, what you do now, Stacey.
Stacey Waterbury [00:27:46]:
It's not that. It's just okay, because when you deal with such, you know, chronic illness or different things like that or something that is so not studied, like mast cell or dysautonomia is such a huge thing now, but even that, you just feel alone and crazy and. But if you just, I don't know, you just, just start loving yourself and it's. You can heal, you know, you can function in life again and you can be a part of life. And chronic illness doesn't have to be the end all, and it doesn't mean it doesn't have to be chronic. It doesn't have to be like, that's even the wrong word. Like, it doesn't have to be chronic. It doesn't have to be.
Stacey Waterbury [00:28:28]:
We, you know, all these tests that they give and they're like, oh, your blood works normal, it's fine, you know, there's nothing wrong, you know, or even sending to a cardiologist well, your heart's great. Well, how about we just talk about the mental health part of it? Or let's just touch on what's happened to you in your life. Let's teach people more about their bodies and, you know, what we put in it or what we expose it to. Yes, those are all important things, but your nervous system is like the end all. Once I learned as much as I did, I was like, it's everything. It's everything.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:28:59]:
It is. Yeah.
Stacey Waterbury [00:29:01]:
It was, like, mind blowing to me. I'm like, every function and everything I'm doing is. It comes from that point. Totally. System. It has to be working properly. If you have trauma, it's not going to work the way that it needs to so that you can thrive. Have to look at that.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:29:17]:
You have to. And I think you said it perfectly earlier, too, which is that every, like we could say now everyone has trauma of some capacity. Because I think we all. I mean, so let's, I guess, put it into context. Like, trauma is when something is so distressing that we don't know how to deal with it, essentially. We don't have the capacity. Our nervous system doesn't have that expanded window of tolerance. Like there's.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:29:41]:
It's an event that goes outside of what we can tolerate, essentially. So that can be a car accident. It could be, you know, and obviously, I'm not going to list off trauma because I don't want to trigger anyone. Right. But it can be many things. Yes. So, and, you know, I think a lot of people have heard of there's like, capital t trauma, which is like the big. The big things we can think of.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:29:58]:
We used to just think it was military related, but now we know there's lots of capital t traumas that can happen, and then there's little t traumas which are, you know, day to more day to day kind of distressing things that can happen, but they're still distressing. It takes us out of our capacity to deal with it. And I think because, as we had said earlier, as humans and culturally, we're so terrible at dealing with discomfort, you know, our go to mechanism is just to shove it away or to ignore it or. I'm fine, right? Like your mantra, I'm fine, I'm fine, everything's fine. Because there's something about being strong or putting on a brave fate. Like we. We so lift that up in this culture. I think we're moving away from it.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:30:34]:
But, like, you know, up until very recently, we've really put a, you know, a prime sort of. What's the word I'm looking for? Like, we really, like, put that on a pedestal, right? Like, oh, look how brave they are. Look at how strong they are. Look at how they didn't cry when this terrible thing happened. Like, that's not good. Like, that is not a simple thing, you know?
Stacey Waterbury [00:30:53]:
No.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:30:54]:
And so I think we're moving again toward, like, actually allowing ourselves to be human about things. But I think that's why it's, you know, fair to say that we all have some form of trauma because we all have been brought up in this culture of, like, suppression or just not knowing how to deal with it or, you know, and there's this. I read this research a while ago, and I might be botching the details of it, but the. The message will come across, which is during 911, they did a study on children, specifically, who were around the towers, who were in the city during the bombing, and they found that children who. So essentially, when we. When stress happens, our nervous system gets activated, and either it wants to fight the threat or run away from it. So that's fight or flight. That's kind of our initial defense mechanism, is either fight it and destroy it or get away from it.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:31:43]:
If we can't do that, if we can't fight it or run away from it, then we go into freeze, which is like, shut down, which is basically our body being merciful so that we're kind of not present when we die, which is essentially what our freeze response thinks is going to happen. It's like, oh, this is so bad. We're probably going to die. Let's just not be here because we don't need to see this happening. And so that's what happens if we can't run away or fight. And so during 911, they did these studies on children, and they found that the children who ran away, like, you know, their family, like, grabbed their hands and they ran away like they could get away from the. The crashing happening of the buildings. They were, you know, they were scared.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:32:23]:
There was obviously some. Still some after effects, but they didn't get trauma. They weren't. They did not have PTSD from that event. Like, they didn't keep reliving it. They didn't have flashbacks. You know, they didn't have any sort of, like, residual effects that we understand to be PTSD because they got to run away from it. They processed it, right? So it's kind of that thing we were talking about where they went into that activation and then they came out on the other side, whereas kids who sheltered in place and kind of went into a freeze.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:32:49]:
Like, we can't run. Whether they were too close or whatever was happening, like, they just had to shelter. They survived, but they couldn't run. They developed PTSD because they were not able to get away from it. And so I think that's the thing that culturally, I'm wanting us to understand more is when we get activated, that's normal. We're always going to. We're always going to be activated. We're always going to be stressed.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:33:11]:
Right? And so again, kind of using your example when you were doing your work and then your husband had his aneurysm and your system kind of went back. It's about understanding that we're always going to have those moments of stress and distress. And, you know, that event was like, too soon in your healing journey where you didn't have that. Like, I mean, I don't know if anyone has the capacity to deal with that without going offline. I mean, that's just one of those big t traumas, right? That's going to always be outside of our window of tolerance because it's not like you're dealing with that all the time. But the fact of the matter that we have to kind of teach our nervous system is that healing is not about, like, never bumping up against discomfort ever again. It's not about never feeling stress ever again. It's about actually learning how to tolerate it, right? It's just like, how do I go into fight or flight and deal with this thing and feel the emotions of it and then come back out of it?
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:34:05]:
Hey, sacred illness listeners. Doctor Erin here. I'm quickly interrupting today's episode to put out the invitation to you or anyone you know who has a chronic illness or chronic symptoms that would like to come onto the podcast and share your story. Our goal is to invite folks onto the show who have worked with Mindbody's medicine modalities and noticed an improvement or even a complete resolution of symptoms using this potent medicine. If this describes you, check the link in the show notes below. That will take you to a quick application to fill out. That will give us some information about who you are, what your story is, and we'll take it from there. And again, if you know anyone who might also fit this description or like to come onto our show, please feel free to share the link with them as well.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:34:44]:
All right, let's get back to the episode.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:34:48]:
I'm curious for you nowadays, like, obviously you still have stress in your life. Like, when you bump up against stressors. What is that experience like for you? I think you spoke to that a little bit earlier, but, yeah, I I.
Stacey Waterbury [00:35:00]:
Feel like now a lot of things that I remind myself is I give myself grace, and that's one of the most important things. So when I'm bumping up against stressors and I'm feeling that, I'm being triggered, I'm acknowledging that. I'm acknowledging it in the moment. If it's just me having a conversation with myself, you know, in a sense, I'm just. I'm really trying not to run. I'm trying to. I'm a runner. That's who I was.
Stacey Waterbury [00:35:24]:
And now I realize that, you know, disassociation was, you know, the game. That's how I did it. That's how I stayed safe, you know, being in fight or flight mode. Yes. Like, everything is not safe. I'm fearful, but I'll just. I would just cut it off and not be in that moment and allow it. I'm learning to not stay quiet and stay small, but not like I'm running around like.
Stacey Waterbury [00:35:48]:
Like that, but I'm bringing it to life and being like, okay, I am feeling this. When I hit that, I am feeling this, and I'm allowing that space, and then I'm allowing myself to be like, okay, is that true? Is that real? Is this really what's happening? And then once you go through that process, you can kind of feel it in your body, right, when you're like, okay, and then your body will just kind of. And again, this doesn't mean there's some times where my body isn't getting the message right away. You know, I've had some recent stuff happen lately. It was very triggering, and I was having a hard time coming out of it, but I was aware of it. So we are all just doing the best that we can with what we have. And if I'm going to have those moments where I'm really proud of myself, when I have a moment and I use my words, you know, in a way that's, you know, not as weapons or anything like that, just give myself space and then allowing. Or when I'm having moments where I'm like, ooh, you can't.
Stacey Waterbury [00:36:42]:
You're struggling with this, Stacey. Maybe you just need more time. Maybe you need some rest. You know, maybe you just need to, you know, pull back a little bit. This is a tough one. Instead of it being the end of the world and not allowing myself to.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:36:57]:
Find my way back, you're characterizing it so well of what this looks like and how it feels, right. It's really, I think what we're doing in this work is we're. Well, you said it. We're coming back into our body, right? And when we come back into our body and we actually live in our body, then we can actually feel what our body is feeling kind of in the moment, you know, versus that numbness and just that kind of reactivity that we can have. Otherwise, we're just reacting to the world versus, I don't know what the. What the other word would be, but instead of being reactionary, we're more embodied and we can be more precise. And so there's that quote that I always quote, which is essentially between impulse and response. There's a pause, you know, and that's what we're working to get.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:37:38]:
So that's. And that's what you're describing, right? Is you're getting this feeling in your body, and you're saying, okay, do I need to express this or do something with it, like, with the person in the room or whatever? Or do I hold it and sit with it and process it? You know? And I think that's the wisdom that comes with this work, is working with our body and recognizing that not everything needs to come out right, which is kind of the dysregulated way of being with emotions. Either come out in this big way or just completely don't feel it at all. Like, those extreme ends are dysregulation. The middle ground is everything in between. Right?
Stacey Waterbury [00:38:10]:
Yeah, you say that, and that's like, I say it all the time. That is one of the things that I say all the time is about, you know, and I just picture it as, like, this pendulum, and everything's, you know, just. It's swinging, and extremism is such a huge thing, and obviously, in so many different aspects of life, but, you know, we're either way over here, somebody's way over here. But if you can just. The middle ground is where the answer is. That is where it lies, you know? Yes, there's, like, a one really big emotion and then the other, and just meet yourself in the middle. Give yourself grace and meet yourself in the middle, because that's where you're going to find clarity. That's where you're going to be able to make good decisions in your life.
Stacey Waterbury [00:38:51]:
You know, you can't make a good decision if you're way over here. You can't. You just can't. It's. It's. It's not possible if it's just not. But finding that middle ground and finding that place where you can just go, okay, and making, you know, living your life from there when you can, because obviously, it's not always possible, but when you can, it's like the key. It really is.
Stacey Waterbury [00:39:14]:
It's the key. And just getting back in your body, getting back in your body and just teaching your body and your nervous system that, you know, not everything is dangerous. It's. It's been the hardest thing that I've ever experienced, and I am still to this day, you know, pushing through that and, you know, making sure that I'm taking care of that and I taking the steps I need to continue on my healing journey, you know, sometimes we're going to take 20 steps back, but that's okay, too. And as much as it doesn't feel safe, you know, like, we were talking about that familiar and, you know that saying, they say, like, your nervous system would rather like that familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven, the alarms go up because even though it might be the answer, but it's different and it's not familiar, just find that space just to push past that, get curious, just. Just step into that place. And I don't take a day, you know, like, for granted on a good day. And everybody's always like, Stacey, when are you going to try to, like, do more? Because I'm very.
Stacey Waterbury [00:40:18]:
I am very structured in a lot of things I do, and they're like, when are you going to, you know, like, maybe you should try this or do this? And I'm like, I'm really comfortable where I am right now, and that's okay. I'm just. I'm good. And I feel like it's helping me to continue to feel safe, that I can move on my healing journey, you know? Yeah, maybe I'm gonna add something, you know, or do something crazy, you know, with my diet, but I also don't feel ready, and I allow myself that space. Right. I'm honest when people say things to me and I'm like, I don't think that I'm ready. I can feel my body get anxiety, like, nervousness about something, and I'm like, I'm just not ready yet. But I'm gonna.
Stacey Waterbury [00:40:55]:
I. It doesn't mean I won't be, but I'm give myself grace, I'm gentle, and I do the work. And then sometimes, some days, I don't. That's okay, too.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:41:04]:
Totally. It's about being human, right? It's meeting yourself where you're at at every step, and there's no algorithm to this. Yeah, it's your experience, and I think that's exactly it is. When we talk about expanding that window of tolerance, it's really. It's a safety window. Right. We're expanding what feels safe to us, and it doesn't feel safe when you, like, rip a band aid off and force it to happen. Right? Like, there's.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:41:28]:
There's some pushing, right? Like, there's.
Stacey Waterbury [00:41:30]:
Yes.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:41:31]:
Obviously in order. It's that, you know that cheesy saying of, like, growth happens just outside the comfort zone, but it's literally just outside. It's, like, right there. You don't have to go, like, 20 miles away. Like, it's just outside. So it's. Yes, and that's the word that Peter Levine uses in somatic work is titration. It's these little titrated doses.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:41:51]:
Right. That you're just going a little bit further and a little bit further and show. It's essentially what you said earlier of, like, every time you experience a new emotion or allow yourself to feel something or allow yourself to bring something into the light to heal it, you are, you know, you're showing your nervous system. We can do this. Like, this is tolerable. We can look at this, we can feel this thing. We can think these thoughts. We can have this experience.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:42:14]:
And look, I'm still here. I'm still alive. Because as silly as that might sound, the nervous system is all about survival. And it literally feels like these distressing things will kill. It, will kill you, you know, will end your life. So it's really one. It's all about survival. So that's why it's like, well, yes, technically, this thing is not good for us, but we know that you're going to live through it, so we're going to keep doing it.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:42:35]:
Right? So it's going to keep doing the things that it knows will. You'll stay alive through until you show it. Like, okay, but that's actually not the most best thing we could do. Let's try this other thing. And slowly we'll grow into that. And then eventually, your nervous system is like, oh, yeah, yeah, this is better. You're right. Sorry.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:42:50]:
Like, let's. Let's do that instead. So it's expanding that safety, that experience of safety. And I think it is truly at the core of all of this, as you said, it's coming back to yourself. It's finding you, it's figuring out who you are. And I remember, I don't know how old I was, but I used to keep a journal my whole life. And I remember probably in middle school, there's this drawing I have in my journal where I'm writing about this pore of emptiness I feel in my body. And I'm just saying I feel like I just don't exist.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:43:22]:
There's nothing in here because I feel like my existence is, you know, and it's like so articulate for a middle schooler. But it's that feeling, I just had that feeling of like, I'm not here. Like, where am I? Who am I? There's nothing inside. It's in that survival base, right? It's all out here. It's just constantly scanning the environment. Who do I need to be? How do I need to show up? What do I need to do today? So there's no time for you to become yourself. You're there, we're always there. Like our self is always here, but it's just underdeveloped essentially.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:43:53]:
Right. Because we didn't get to have that experience.
Stacey Waterbury [00:43:54]:
So 100%.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:43:56]:
So it's that journey, but back to it. Yeah. And so we had talked at the beginning, before we started recording about, you know, our goal for this podcast is to essentially give people hope, to show people that, you know, there's. There's no reality in which someone can't heal. No body is different from any other body. Right. It's just finding these steps and putting together your own individual journey. You had mentioned a couple of resources in terms of therapies you did, one of which is EMDR, which I think a lot of people are familiar with.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:44:26]:
You also mentioned tapping, which is emotional freedom technique, eft. I would highly recommend I do that too with my counselor that I work with. And it's phenomenal. So those are two things people can check out in Google and find practitioners 100%. And then you have some resources that you have created or are creating yourself. Do you want to share about those as well?
Stacey Waterbury [00:44:47]:
Yes. So I am creating some resources and I've done some ebooks which I'm getting ready to put out. And I have one just on nervous system regulation and I have another one on the vagus nerve, just for simple things, because some people want to know that. But also I'm in the middle of writing for mast cells, so it's. And it's kind of. I have a little theme to it, but it's dear mast cells, you know, because my book that I'm also, that I wrote that I'm not ready to put out in the world, but will be. It's Dear John, because I wrote to John the whole time he was in the hospital and, but it's a journey of, you know, grief, but also nervous system and how, you know, what I went through and what I needed to, to come out of that. So it all revolves around, you know, nervous system regulation, including the mast cell one.
Stacey Waterbury [00:45:34]:
I am, I offer a guide which will be coming out, I think, in about a month, of just quick, really great techniques for nervous system regulation. So to understand your nervous system, all the parts of it and things that you can do, including with breath work and just things that I tried and some of them didn't work for me, they just weren't for me. But I figure one size doesn't, you know, it's like that.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:46:00]:
Yeah.
Stacey Waterbury [00:46:01]:
What doesn't work for me might work for somebody, but just, I wish somebody just handed me a list of some stuff, you know, and just so, just a little bit of guides out there, you know, these guides that I've just been creating and I'm going to have them up. I started my website and I started a blog. So you'll be able to read my first three blogs here by the end of the week. And we can put my website on your thing if that's what you would like. Yes. And they can go and they could read my blogs and then I will have everything else up and running and available. There's a free ebook on nervous system regulation that you can download from there. And then there's another one that's coming up on the Vegas nerve that's just a free ebook.
Stacey Waterbury [00:46:43]:
And then my other stuff is just a little bit bigger. Books of my life and my story, the story of me, the story of my story with mast cells and how they went wild on me and then my story of grief. And then in the end I think that that's all I want to do. I just want my experience to help somebody else because if I only had that kind of support, you know, I think, and it's. I just want to be able to. Sometimes somebody's experience is, can really help somebody else and that's all I want to do.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:47:15]:
Yeah. Beautiful. Well, and I know, I just know from the folks who follow my work and who listen to this podcast, you know, just by doing this, you're helping and with those resources. And I, it, I said this to you when we, you know, before we started today, just that it's so much more impactful coming from someone who has walked the journey right in your specific journey because mine is different with autoimmune disease and Crohn's and all that sort of thing. But it's when it's. When it's your symptoms, your diagnosis, you, you know, and it's just so. It just hits different. Right.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:47:46]:
And I think it's so relatable, so much of what you had shared. And it's always just so fascinating to me, too. The. The themes, you know, all of our stories are different, and yet there's these themes that carry through, and I think that's the current I want people to start to get into is like, this is my story, too. There's details that are different, but there's this current that it is running through all of us. So, you know, people are. I once was told, like, we only have to know. We only have to be a little bit further down the stream than the people who are, you know, trying to do what we're doing.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:48:16]:
And so, you know, we're just saying this is the next step for you, or this is where we are. We were where you are now, and this is how we got to the next point, or this is how we got to where we are. And so they can, like, catch that current and keep going and keep going and keep going. And like you said, it's. This is more. We're trying to consolidate and give this information to people because we didn't have it. We, you know, we had to piecemeal it and put it together. And, you know, my journey was ten years.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:48:40]:
I think you said yours was seven from start to now. And so it's like, if we can just save people, either save them time or just give them hope, you know, like, to give them a little bit more of a structured path. What a gift that is.
Stacey Waterbury [00:48:52]:
Truly, and I love that word, just hope, you know, like, if we can just give hope, and as soon as you can feel some hopeful, like, hopeful.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:49:01]:
Yeah, it's.
Stacey Waterbury [00:49:02]:
It changes things. Like, there's a chance that. What it. What does that mean? I could. I could do this, you know, and. And that ignites something.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:49:09]:
Yep.
Stacey Waterbury [00:49:10]:
And sometimes we can feel really hopeless, and I honor that, too. But the second that you start feeling hopeful shifts.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:49:18]:
Yeah. I want people to catch that current, catch the hope current and know how to ride the waves when it's not totally available.
Stacey Waterbury [00:49:25]:
Exactly. Oh, but anyways, this is such an honor. I have, as soon as you. As soon as I found you, I have just enjoyed everything about you. Your mind, which you share. It's beautiful. And I'm really thankful that we've got to, you know, share space.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:49:43]:
Likewise. Thank you. I'm so honored. Your spirit is like, I could just. I wish I could give you a hug, but it's lovely to connect with you and to hear your story and yeah, and I will put all of the links in the show notes below. So if you're listening, today's July 8, 2024. So if you're listening in the future, you might already see the links below. If you're listening in the near future, we'll be adding links later for Stacey's ebooks and all the things as they come out.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:50:08]:
So just tune back in if you're interested. Or, you know, check out her website because I'm sure they'll be linked on your website as well.
Stacey Waterbury [00:50:13]:
Yeah. Yes. Yes. Thank you.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:50:16]:
Thank you so much.
Stacey Waterbury [00:50:18]:
Okay, thank you.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:50:23]:
Thanks so much for tuning in to another episode of the sacred illness podcast. If you find this information shared here inspirational and educational, please share it with those you think would benefit from this work. To take this work deeper yourself, check out our website, www. Dot Aurora, where you can explore our coaching community and course options. And don't forget to subscribe to this channel where new content is coming out all the time intended to inspire, awaken and help you deepen your relationship with yourself, your life and your world. We'll see you next time.
