Dr. Erin Hayford [00:00:02]:
So the big question is, we know spontaneous remissions and so called miracle cures exist. We also know they aren't so spontaneous after all. I'm living proof of this. Having cured my quote unquote incurable illness, there's something to how this happens. So how do we, as humans with chronic symptoms, tap into this so called miraculous healing capacity? That is the question, and this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Doctor Erin Hayford, and welcome to the sacred illness podcast. Before we begin today's episode, just my standard medical disclaimer. This podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:00:44]:
The content should not be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always consult with a qualified healthcare professional regarding any medical concerns.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:00:56]:
Hi, everyone.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:00:56]:
Doctor Erin here. Welcome back to the Sacred Illness podcast. I am interviewing Kimberly Sleath, and today is part two of a two part interview. If you did not catch part one, check out the previous episode, get up to date, and then come back here when you're ready.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:01:09]:
Okay?
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:01:10]:
Enjoy.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:01:12]:
I made this post a while ago on social media about so called miracle cures, people who kind of like you. I mean, you kind of had that piece to your story because it's like the moment you started doing mindset work, things shifted. And, like, two weeks my program. And. And so it's kind of like that question of, what is it that allows some people to just shift? And like you said, it's not like it was immediate because it's been a long journey for you. But what I have seen, it's. There's. And I would love to hear from you if this resonates.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:01:37]:
It seems like when a person is just ready, like, the body is just ready to let go, it's just ready to shift. It's just ready to, you know? Cause, like, if there's part of you that was still like, nah, I kind of need sickness to, like, get what I need, it probably wouldn't shift that quickly. It would take more uprooting to, like, get rid of those other things. But it's like, you got to this point of, I'm done. This has to change. And so when you. It's like everything in your body aligns, and once you find the thing that it's like the life raft, you're like, okay, I'm jumping. You know? Does that make sense? Does that feel true for you?
Kimberly Sleeth [00:02:07]:
Yeah, that's absolutely true. I think that even if I found this work five years ago, it would not have done anything. I don't think I was mentally ready. I feel like, you know, and this won't be true for everyone, but for me personally, when I hit my forties and I've heard people talk about this, when you get into your forties, you kind of stop caring so much about what other people think and all this kind of stuff. And I think that had something to do with it as well because I think I was so stuck in this caring what everyone else thought of me and making sure that I was worthy of being loved. I was afraid of losing people if I stood up to this or if I argued with this and whatever, like, then they might think I'm rude and not want to be around anymore or whatever. Like, I stopped caring about that so much and being, like, really? Like, you know, other people do this, I can do this, you know? And yes, I think I just hit a point where my burnout was so extreme and I just suddenly realized that if I don't change something now at 43, I'm going to never live my life. Like, that started to scare me because that was already in my mind.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:03:22]:
Like, something has to change because I don't want this to be the way the rest of my life is. When I found the work and started doing it, it's almost like my body was like, yes, we're ready for this. We're ready to do something else now and we don't have to live in survival mode anymore because that's what it was for 40 something years. Survival mode all the time without even realizing it, you know?
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:03:48]:
Yeah, I got a question from someone recently as a person that I've been working with that was like, how do you, like, how do you know if stress or, like, past, you know, stuff is keeping you stuck and sick? Like, if, how do you know if that's contributing? And I think that's the thing that's so tricky is, like, you just, it's just how you live, right? Like, it's not like an obvious, like, oh, I've shifted. And, you know, unless it's like a big stressor and you can, like, just feel. You can tell that you're, like, more stressed out or whatever, but generally speaking, if you are born into a world where there's just a lot of stress and chaos, or if you're sensitive or, like, if feeling that intensity of being surrounded by intensity and chaos is just sort of the normal environment in which you are existing, you don't really have that experience of like, oh, I was really calm and life was really peaceful and good, and now I feel, you know, like, it's just like that. And it's. It's incredible to me that our bodies do so good at getting, you know, moving along and staying somewhat intact. You know, like, you were still getting life, but obviously, the quality of life was not where you wanted it to be. But, like, the fact that our bodies can still maintain even though, you know, it's basically, like, physiologically not functioning how it's supposed to. Right.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:05:04]:
Like, it's in. Everything is shifted into survival. It's amazing we can survive for that many years, you know, being in that state. But it's like. But then, you know, like, when we think about it that way, it's like, well, no wonder we have symptoms. Like, if our body is physiologically ready to fight a bear or fight the tiger, whatever it is, like, every. Every second of our lives, like, we, you know, it can't. We can't be in that.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:05:25]:
In that state and not expect something to happen.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:05:28]:
Yeah. And I think that was something that was hard for me, too, is that people would tell me, basically, to use my logic, like, you're not in danger. There's nothing that you need to be anxious about or worried about. And so a lot of my experience growing up and even as an adult, was, you don't, you know, dismissing, you know, dismissing my experiences is valid. Like, you shouldn't be scared. You shouldn't be worried. This isn't a problem. You're making it a problem.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:05:59]:
And so, yeah, it's really hard when you're always in survival mode, but you don't know it, and you don't know why you're always worried or anxious or whatever. And part of it's not just an anxiety disorder. It's when you're highly sensitive, you just pick up on things that other people don't. And to them, it's not a threat because they don't even notice it in the first place, or they just don't think on it that much. But it's like breathing. I can't help it. It's, you know, I see it. I smell it, I hear it.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:06:32]:
You can't take that away from me. But to other people, it's frustrating because it adds this extra layer of stress on their end of something to think about or worry about that they don't care about. And so it was just sort of like, I was always kind of told to use my logic, right? And I did try for a long time. I tried to become more logical and less emotional and whatever, and that's when I lost my intuition. It was like, I'm going to research and I'm going to study, and I'm going to use my logic and I'm going to whatever. And I became, well, it burned me out more because it's just, that's just not who I am. But I'm still kind of trying to get out of that, like, trying to bring back the beauty that was my imagination and my intuition and my emotional connection and all those things. Being highly sensitive and.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:07:24]:
Or being stuck in a state of survival, um, when other people around you do not understand that that situation is really hard because they just think you should just use your logic and be like, there's nothing wrong. We're having a good time. This is a good day, you know, whatever. Um, and that further, that actually makes things worse, you know, because now you feel bad about yourself and you don't know how to fix it. Fix it.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:07:51]:
So, yeah, I I mean, a lot.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:07:53]:
Of this work is validation, right?
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:07:55]:
Like, validating your experience, validating that there's always a reason. And I think that's what frustrates me with doctors, too. When they're like, it's just anxiety. It's like, okay, but why am I anxious? You know? It's like a kid who's like, but why? But why? You know? Like, that's the kind of approach we need to have with this work or with our bodies, with our health, with our lives, is there's always a reason, there's always something deeper. And I. Sure, maybe. Maybe someone has anxiety, but what is making their system feel unsafe? What is making them hate present? And what's making them feel like there's a threat present constantly? You know, it's not just like, like, especially in cases with chronic anxiety. It's like, hey, there's something chronically keeping that system in state of survival.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:08:39]:
So what can we do to help that system let go? You know, and anxiety is going to, of course, the cause, physical symptoms, et cetera, whatever. So I think it's just that, that validation of you feel this way for a reason, even if it is just in your head from what, you know, from your brain thinking there's a threat, but there's still a reason that threat got planted there in the first place. Like you said, it's not like you dreamed up the tiger and then you chased yourself with the tiger, like the tiger existed in the real world, your system. And, you know, all of us who have had chronic symptoms or have chronic symptoms, there was a real threat at some point in our lives, and sometimes there was many of them. And our nervous system is going to remember that because it is wired for survival. It's wired to keep us alive. And so it's going to say, okay, like, that thing exists, we need to stay on edge or like stay alert until we know that threat is gone. And that's the whole thing with trauma, is that until we work it through our system and release it and like really let it, let us ourselves know that that threat has passed, we're gonna stay on that.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:09:41]:
We're gonna stay walking on eggshells, right? We're gonna be like ready to go. And I think that's the problem with the approach of western medicine and well meaning family and friends is like, they're asking us to use logic. Like you said, it's like, just don't like think a different thought or like have a different experience. And it's like, that's not the part of my brain that's wired right now. That's not the part of my brain that's like in that survival mode. And we can't get through that logical place.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:10:08]:
Hi everyone. Doctor Erin here. So by now you're starting to get an idea of some of what the sacred illness paradigm is all about. The sacred illness paradigm is all about this question of what is your illness inviting you to become. What is it that lies within each of us that allows some of us to acquire so called spontaneous healing or remissions? And what is the key to unlocking that innate self healing capacity in each.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:10:34]:
And every one of us?
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:10:35]:
The sacred illness blueprint is something that I developed as a guide to help you walk through this process step by step to learn how to move deeper and deeper within yourself, to find these layers of dysregulation, of trauma, of limiting beliefs of things that you're holding within your system that are keeping you small, stuck and sick. Ultimately, if we ignore the mind body connection and are not exploring the ways in which our nervous system continues to be dysregulated or in a chronic state of activation and stress, any healing modality that we put into our body from the outside in is going to be less effective, if not effective at all. So if you are currently feeling stuck, lost, confused or disillusioned in your healing journey, feeling like you have tried so many things, you have tried so many modalities, you have worked with so many providers, and, and you're just not seeing the results you want, know that this is normal. And of course you're not, because this foundational mind body connection is often, if not always, missed in all of these modalities and just like we can't build a house on top of sand, our healing cannot grow and blossom and be strong and successful if the foundation is not laid first. So rather than doing something different, but similar to everything you have tried before and expecting different results, I encourage you to consider doing something different altogether. This is where I invite you to explore the sacred illness group coaching program. This is a low cost monthly membership option that I have created. It's constantly open, constantly enrolling, where you can begin to explore this completely different way of engaging in your health, in your body, in your illness and in your healing process.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:12:12]:
What is provided in inside this group coaching program is the blueprint that lays the foundation and lays the path out for you to follow, to begin to explore these deeper aspects of health, to truly get at the root of what is causing your illness, and from there, allowing all other modalities to blossom so that you can actually start to see the changes and the healing take place in your body that you have been expecting and wanting all along. If you're ready and want to learn more, head on over to aurorasomatic.com and at the top of the screen, click on group coaching where you can read all about it and become a member. Today. I can't wait to see you on the inside. And for now, let's get back to the podcast.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:12:51]:
It feels like the biggest limiting belief that you're kind of working with is just feeling like you're quote unquote normal or like there, there's, there's not anything wrong with you in the sense that you were thinking. Like in the way that you were thinking, does that feel true? Or have you like, what would you say is like kind of the core belief that started it all, so to speak?
Kimberly Sleeth [00:13:09]:
I think that's definitely it. I think that, you know, as a child, my feelings weren't validated a lot. So even when I had a real feeling, like something that I should actually be worried about or that was normal to be worried about, especially for a child, it was often dismissed. And so I learned not to trust myself and I learned that people did not want to deal with my feelings and emotions. And I would often try to get loud, like crying, screaming, like tantrums and things like that to just get my feelings validated. I think for me, validation has been the biggest thing. And so I would often choose friendships and relationships and other things where I was chronically invalidated because that's what was normal for me. And I really, truly believed that I was the not normal one.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:14:06]:
And that everybody else is saying these things or denying my experience and reality because my reality was flawed. Like, I'm the problem. And so that's been the theme of my life, and that is what I'm working on now. Just, you know, and I've been into. I've always been into psychology. I've always talked about emotions openly and freely. So it feels like I've been doing this work for so long, but really, I talk about it, I understand it, but I wasn't internalizing it and actually, you know, using it and dealing with it. So, yeah, working on validation for myself, just validating myself and not making it about me when other people can't validate my situation or my feelings, has been the biggest thing for me.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:15:05]:
And I think that changes everything, because I just really did not hold any of my own power. Everyone else held my power for me. And you can't. Or I can't heal like that. Like, I can take all the supplements. I can be the health person. Like, I've been the health person for so long that I even had someone say to me in my family, like, well, if that stuff works, then why do you still have problems? You know, and I, and I made that about me. Like, oh, well, see, that's why I can never be an herbalist, because I'm not good enough to be one.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:15:40]:
I still have some issues, and so it means I won't be a good enough herbalist. Like, I'm just. It's like imposter syndrome. And so, yeah, like, building my confidence in myself and validating myself. Sounds so simple and, like, you wouldn't think it would take 18 years to figure that out, but it really is. Things run so deep, you don't realize how much you're holding onto that's from other people and. And. Or how to get rid of it.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:16:08]:
Like, it. That's why this work is so important, because, like, people need this. You know, I think especially sensitive people need this because we don't know how to. To extrapolate ourselves from others and their energy and what they're putting onto us.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:16:25]:
Yeah, 100%. I mean, as you know, I think of this work as a reclamation of yourself. Right. It's the path back to your authentic self. And for some of us, I mean, I feel like for so many of us, maybe even the majority of us, we don't really even know who that is fully, because it, you know, it started in childhood where we had to kind of shut down what was going on internally, to focus on what was happening externally. And I think, like you're saying, especially for sensitive kids, because. And people, because there's so much, like, overstimulation or so much happening outside of us. It's so hard to what is my experience versus just what am I feeling and intuiting from everyone happening or everything happening around me? And so it is.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:17:08]:
Yeah, it's. And, you know, people. Well, I've been asked before, too, like, is there truly, like, a sense of self, or aren't we just, like, a, you know, a construct of our environment? And I. I believe really firmly that there's a nature and a nurture, right? Like, we come into the world having a sense of self. Like, we. We have an innate personality, an innate way of showing up in the world that, like, you know, if all external conditions were perfect, like, this person would just blossom and be in the world. But, you know, of course we're always going to be influenced by our environment. It's just the question of, like, how much did we get influenced? How far off track are we? How not aligned are we to the point where it's actually causing, like, an inner tension and an inner turmoil because we're not experiencing our emotions, we're not expressing them.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:17:51]:
We're not, you know, we're not living our life in this way that is communicating to our body that we're safe, that we're like, it's okay if we are okay to be ourselves. If we are okay to express ourselves, then we're safe. And if for some reason, there's an innate, intuitive, whatever, like, you know, thing happening in our body that we're keeping inside, then there's a communication of it's not safe to be yourself. And so therefore, we need to shift into survival mode. And I think it's so, you know, we think of trauma as well. I mean, it started, you know, we started with understanding that trauma was even a thing because of military PTSD. That's where it started. And that slowly has expanded, you know, in our lifetime, through understanding that it's so much more than that.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:18:33]:
And I think where we're at now is really understanding that. Childhood trauma, I think. I mean, honestly, again, I'm careful to not say things to extremes, but I feel like most of us have some form of it and not in the sense that every parent is terrible and abusive. And it's simple as not being attuned to in a certain way. Right? Like, if we are, like you said, if you're experiencing an emotion and your parents are like, stop having that emotion, you know, because they can't handle it. And oftentimes it's like anger or whatever. It's like, just be quiet, be a good girl, whatever. You know? However we were raised, like, that's not overtly abusive, right.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:19:07]:
But it's just. But it's still causing an issue in us. Like, it's causing a rift between our innate self. And so it's traumatic in the sense that it's shifting the way our nervous system functions, and therefore it's going to have an impact on our bodies. I think that's kind of how I think of trauma is, like, anything that takes you away from yourself and makes you go into a state of survival is a trauma. And so it's not being attuned to. It's nothing. Um, yeah, it's just not feeling like there's a safe container for us to blossom within.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:19:39]:
Does that resonate with kind of your experience as a.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:19:42]:
Yes? Yeah, definitely. And we have a conversation of nature versus nurture a lot, because with five kids, we have, you know, we have three adult children now, and two still at. Well, we have three still at home, but one's an adult, two moved out. But, like, they're all so different. They're all so different. And, like, I mean, especially with my younger two, because of some experiences I have with my older ones. Like, I tried to be very intentional about, you know, instilling certain things or responding in certain ways or whatever. And regardless of all that, they still, you know, I'll see a lot of things on social media.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:20:30]:
Like, if you do this with your kids, they will turn out like this. If you read to your kids this many books a week, they'll love to read. Well, I can say for a fact that's not true. Like, it depends on the kid. Like, they are who they are, and then, like, how they respond. One thing that I did as a parent traumatized one child while the other child was like, I don't even. Like, that was nothing. Like, they're all so different.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:21:00]:
And, you know, I'm not going to name names, but, like, some people that I know, like, one sibling says their childhood was great. They loved every minute of it, only remembers the good things, whatever. And there's another one who still needs therapy constantly, like, and has a horrible memories, you know, that. And it's just, we're all born a certain way, and so we absorb things differently. And so that's why it's hard to say that someone didn't have trauma, you know, because it really depends on how things affect you, too.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:21:35]:
My little one is six weeks old, and I can already tell a huge difference between him and my firstborn. Like, and he's a baby. You know, it's just, like, I can just feel that his energy and his, like, little being is just different, you know? And, yeah, I often will joke, which is not really a joke, but I'm like, I know they're gonna end up in therapy no matter what I do, right? Like, yeah, it's true. Yeah. It's like, we can't be the perfect parent for the. The child that, like, is growing in front of us, and we're getting to know them as, you know. I think we. We do our best, and I, you know, trying to, like, meet basic needs and that sort of thing.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:22:08]:
But, like, in general, it is hard. Basically, the way I think of it is, like, our modern brain is not meant for. Or I should say our ancient brain has not caught up to the modern world. Right? Like, our brains are still evolving to catch up to the, like, the craziness of life as it is. And the fact that we have these really developed brains doesn't negate the fact that there's still, like, this animalistic response and animalistic needs. And so we're here trying to balance, like, the modern stuff with the, like, you know, the basic needs stuff, and it. You know, it's just. It's a lot.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:22:40]:
It's a lot to have to. Yeah. To do all at the same time, all the time. So I think, in general, a lot of people I work with will say, I had a great childhood. I have wonderful parents. Like, nothing, you know? And that is absolutely true. And this is not about, like, throwing mom and dad under the bus. Cause, like, we're parents, and we're here to say, like, we know we messed up.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:23:00]:
Even though we love our kids and we're doing our best, it doesn't have to. Again, it's not like, I think we need to divorce ourselves from this idea that trauma is, like, you know, like, physical abuse, like, really overt kind of forms. Obviously, that is trauma, too, and there's a lot of that, unfortunately. And it can also be more subtle. And so this is not about demonizing parents or, like, erasing your good childhood memories. It's about validating why your body's wired a certain way and just helping you to work through those memories. Like, basically working with your inner child and saying, like, yes, all things were. You know, these things were all really great, and it's okay that you needed or wanted more in this moment.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:23:40]:
Like you said, those caregivers you had for that moment of just being really attuned and holding you. And, like, that's a lot of the work we do in the program is going back and giving your inner child those things that they needed. And obviously, we can't rewrite history, but we can rewire your nervous system. And so when you go back and have those experiences of, like, yeah, when I was mad at my sister and I was sent to my room, what I really needed was to be able to, like, express my anger and tell my sister she made me upset. And those little attunements or those little tweaks right to the. To the story make a huge difference because it's so validating and it's saying, this is what it feels like to express your anger. This is why your anger was valid. This is how it feels to be validated in that expression of yourself.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:24:26]:
And I can't even tell you how quickly I see in sessions, like, even just one little micro story like that of feeling your anger and getting mad at your sister in this past experience you had can bring so much relief. And people will next session come in and say, yeah, I just feel like a burden has been lifted and I feel so much more empowered. Like you were saying, it's empowering and it's taking your power back. And it's just really, I think when it comes down to it, it's just validating the human experience and making space for all of it. Right. Like, making space for the messiness that it is to be a person and recognizing there's no right way to show up in the world. It's okay that we, as sensitive people go to a party and are, like, super overwhelmed or noticed, like, all funny things. And our partner was like, oh, the food was good.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:25:15]:
You know, like, there's, like, experiences are so. Can be so different, and it's just making space for all of it and, you know, meeting ourselves as best we can because other people can't always meet us where we need to be meth, but at least we can do that for ourselves, you know? And then from there, we can. Or attune to, like, based on me knowing myself and allowing myself to show up in the world in a certain way. What do I need? Who do I need to surround myself with? You know, it kind of goes out from there versus, I think, you know, you kind of spoke to this. And I think in general, it can be trauma makes us focus on the outside in, like, we're trying to control the environment or we're selecting based on past traumas. Whereas if we start to go within, then it's like, okay, I feel good and now I can, I can choose, you know, the outside based on my inside, not try to make the outside validate my inside, if that makes sense.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:26:06]:
One of the things that I dealt with was once all this stuff started coming out about trauma, about how you raise kids because, you know, I don't know about you, but I was raised during a time where, you know, spanking and other forms of things like that were normal and okay, and timeouts and yelling. I mean, it was all normal and fine, and everybody went through that, right? Like, you weren't hurting your kids by doing that. But then this stuff started to come out and so it was like, oh, okay, I need to be different. And I ran with it. I was like, okay, gentle parenting. Like, this is, this is what I'm gonna do. And it became a huge focus of mine and I became very intentional and I tried really hard. And then I feel like I made some, some mistakes, you know, along the way and stuff like that.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:26:55]:
And when my two older kids had mentioned some of those mistakes, I took it really hard as a highly sensitive person and stuff like that. And, you know, there's some deeper issues there. But the point is that I took it all upon myself. Like, I had screwed up this parent completely. Like, my whole life's purpose was over. Like, you know, and I still had these other kids to raise. And I, so I, like, became a perfectionist in raising them in the least traumatic way possible. Like, I wanted to make it to where they would have nothing that they needed therapy for and all this kind of stuff.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:27:40]:
And it became like an obsession that was hurting me a lot and enabling them. Like, I was afraid to tell them to do chores. I was afraid to. Basically, I was afraid to do anything that would cause them pain or upset with me. And I just kind of wanted to put a word in there to other parents who may be highly sensitive or have more perfectionist tendencies to not do that. Like, to, to realize that your kids are going to have feelings that aren't always positive towards you. They're going to have, you're not going to be able to do everything right. You can't prevent any trauma or any negative feelings there, and you cannot give them the perfect childhood.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:28:29]:
And so trying to do that really, really, really burns me out. And I just don't want other parents to, to go through the same thing. Like, it's important to be intentional with your parenting. And I think gentle parenting is wonderful. And being trauma informed and all these things is very important. But to take it to the extreme isn't healthy for yourself or your kids, and it can actually be harmful to you and maybe even them. I think just trying your best is what's important.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:29:05]:
I agree with that. I appreciate you saying that because. Yeah, I. I'm. You know, I'm in the thick of it right now with a three year old and a newborn, like, with, like, you know, trying to get those nervous systems in working order.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:29:18]:
Yeah.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:29:19]:
And I think the most helpful thing that I have read because it is a struggle if you ever want your resiliency and your regulated nervous system to be tested, like, raise kids. And that's, you know, like, it is the test of all tests. And, you know, like, I've been humbled, you know, like, as someone who does this work, like, you know, not. I'm not saying I'm cocky about it, but, like, I have. I'm like, I get it. I understand it. This is what I do. I help people with this.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:29:46]:
And then I have kids, and I'm like, holy moly. Like, I. Okay, like, back to square one. Right. But I think the most helpful thing that I have read that has really validated things for me is stuff like that, which is, like, basically, you're going to mess up and don't try to be perfect. And that the repair is, like, the most important part, because that is life. Like, you know, and I was raised by. I think my mom is highly sensitive.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:30:11]:
She's still alive, so I should have her, like, do a little quiz, but I'm pretty sure, you know, based on. Based on kind of, like, the way that I understand myself and, like, what you're saying, it just, like, because she tried to do that, like, have this perfect, like, childhood things, really calm things, really easy. Like, she would basically. She was, like, the sponge of. Of, like, the crap in life, right? Like, she would take all of the burden away. And so that was great. Right? Like, you know, it was, like, a lovely childhood. Everything was taken care of in that regard.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:30:39]:
There was obviously, like, I got sick for a reason, but that was not the.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:30:42]:
Right.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:30:42]:
Yeah. And so. But, like, part of that was, like, never being told no. Right. Like, never being uncomfortable. And so I had, like, bad boundaries, and I didn't know how to say no to others. Like, I basically became a people pleaser because of that modeling. Right.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:30:57]:
So there was, like, a downside to that. But the repair part is when you mess up, coming back around and apologizing to your child and saying, I'm so sorry I did that. I should not have yelled. That was not appropriate. I love you so much, whatever that is. Because when I'm working with people and they are having, let's say they have IB's, let's say they have a gut issue, we're working with that symptom. And a memory comes up of, like, a time where actually, this is a real example. There was in a.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:31:29]:
There was a story where a parent, like, hit their child, right? Like, she was yelling at the sister, and the patient that I was working with tried to protect her sister from getting yelled at, and the mom turned and slapped her. And so we worked with that memory. And what the. What she needed, she was like, I don't even really think I needed her to not hit me. What I needed was for her to say, like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry I did that. Like, I feel out of control right now. I'm so upset. I should not be yelling at you girls.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:31:57]:
I love you. You know, like, that's what she needed. And so, like, it's not even. You can do things, like, hit, you know, like, which is as bad as it can get for some of us with our parents and still, like, the thing the kid needs is just for you to apologize and, like, calm back down to their level and just, like, be a human about it, right? Because so much of what happens is, like, there's a hit and then nothing, right? Like, it's just left at that. And then mom calms down eventually and pretends, like, everything is fine, but meanwhile, it's too late for us. Like, our body has absorbed this thing. And so repair is the name of the game. So I think part of what that is, too, is it's acknowledging, like, life is hard.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:32:37]:
We're going to have stressors. We're going to face challenges. We're going to have crappy situations and fights and discomfort. So, like, you're saying, like, trying to make it perfect and safe and, you know, without anything, any challenges is going to. It's kind of like telling that nervous system, like, you know, this is what life is. And then when stress happens, they're like, what do I do? I don't know how to. I don't know how to manage. So the repair work is showing.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:33:02]:
Showing how to basically handle that. And that's what really helps our nervous systems to regulate because it's like, I saw mom get mad. I saw her have a reaction. I saw her come down and apologize. And, like, you know, that co regulation thing is really what it's all about. So sounds like that's kind of what you're coming around to with, like, you know, just learning through parenting is that that repair is what it's all about. Have you seen that with your own kids, like, how that piece is important?
Kimberly Sleeth [00:33:26]:
Yes. So one thing I'm really intentional about is telling them about my moods and emotions. So I want them to know that it's normal and okay to feel things. Like, it's what you do with those feelings that can be not okay. So, for example, when I'm angry and irritated, I'm not going to hit things or whatever. I may be moody, but then I will tell them, sorry, I'm sorry. I'm really moody today. I didn't get enough sleep.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:33:56]:
You know, I'm open with them about what's going on with me because I feel like, for them, that is really important. I haven't had, like, actually, in the past few years, I haven't had to do a lot of repair work. They're older and, like, I'm good at telling them when things are going on and we're not, you know, so there hasn't been a whole lot of repair work needed. And, you know, to be honest, when my older three were younger, that wasn't even heard of, like, yeah, I was parenting the way that my generation was merited. You know, like, there was no social media to share this stuff.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:34:37]:
So there's been. For our generation, there was there, and, you know, previous, all previous generations, there was that mindset of, like, they're kids. They don't know anything. We're the adult. We know best. So just listen to me. Right? Like, that was kind of the mentality. And I think what I mean, especially as sensitive kids, we know viscerally, like, it's not true.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:34:55]:
Like, you pick up on so much as a child, you. You understand, and you may not have the correct, like, the adult understanding of it, but you can sense, you know, when stuff is off, obviously. And so having that experience, you know, being told to your, having your parent tell you, like, I didn't sleep enough. This is, you know, I'm hungry, or, like, I'm just overwhelmed. Like, it's so important because you're also giving your kids language for when they feel that way. Like, okay, this is, you know, there's a reason there's discomfort in my body. Like, what do I need? It's basically keeping you in touch with your needs. And I think the biggest thing that, you know, the biggest thing that's happening in childhood trauma is what we talked about today where there's this rift between who you are and who you think you're supposed to be.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:35:40]:
Like this, I'm not okay, right? Like, I'm not okay, I think, is, like, kind of the foundation of all these limiting beliefs. Like, there's something wrong with me. I'm not good enough. I can't, you know? Yeah. Like, there's something different. Like, I'm the black sheep. There's something really different about me, or I'm not smart enough or whatever. There's always this, like, not enough, something wrong, something not okay.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:35:58]:
And that is usually coming from when our parents are having this big thing happening and this big emotion, or they're getting mad at us or something. Like, we children are naturally narcissistic. Like, we think the world is a reflection of us. And so if mom is mad, it's something about me. If this thing, bad thing is happening, it's something about me, right? And so that's where we. If, like, mom and dad model owning it. Like, I didn't sleep. That's why I'm acting this way.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:36:25]:
It's not because you're a bad child and there's something foundationally wrong with you. So this is, you know, as parents, this is what we mean. Or, you know, as. As humans, this is what we mean by cycle breaking, right? Because we're breaking how our parents raised us. And then also, this is how we reparent our inner child. We go back and we say, what did we really need to hear? What did we really need in that moment that we didn't get to, like, basically reconfirm that we're okay, that we're safe, that our feelings are valid, et cetera. So I appreciate this parenting talk, because I've been thinking so much about how. Yeah, like, you know, basically, I think of this work as, like, re.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:37:02]:
I mean, it's inner child work, reparenting our inner child. And I'm living it in real time with my own kids, which is, like, very stressful. It just feels like there's so much pressure on it. But I'm. I really appreciate what you said. I feel like you were talking to me of, like, try not to be perfect, you know? It's gonna be okay.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:37:21]:
Hey, sacred illness listeners. Doctor Erin here. I'm quickly interrupting today's episode to put out the invitation to you or anyone you know who has a chronic illness or chronic symptoms that would like to come onto the podcast and share your story. Our goal is to invite folks onto the show who have worked with Mindbody's medicine modalities and noticed an improvement or even a complete resolution of symptoms using this potent medicine. If this describes you, check the link in the show notes below. That will take you to a quick application to fill out. That will give us some information about who you are, what your story is and we'll take it from there. And again, if you know anyone who might also fit this description or like.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:37:58]:
To come onto our show, please feel.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:38:00]:
Free to share the link with them as well. All right, let's get back to the episode.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:38:06]:
One more thing I want to touch on before we wrap up today is just, again, the power of when you're ready to shift, things will shift. Like the IB's story is just really powerful how your body just shifted and like released and opened and things started moving and like, basically, like, things came back online. And I think that's what I really want people to hear is this work takes time. And it takes time for all of these limiting beliefs and all of these ways in which we don't feel safe in the world, to feel ready. And if you are not seeing things shift in your physical symptoms, it's okay, right? Because that just means there's some part of you that's still not feeling totally safe, right? There's some story or some, like we're just talking about. Like, there's some experience where it's like I'm not fully feeling ready to be safe in the world and to show up in certain ways. And I think some of us, you know, it's not like there's this, like, place of perfection where we have no limiting beliefs and we feel totally safe. But it's like a seesaw, right? Where it's like we feel safe enough to.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:39:06]:
Where things can start to shift for us. And sometimes it's dramatic like you experienced and sometimes it's not.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:39:12]:
Also, I think probably a lot of people will deal with this, is that there was the big shift and then things changed a lot. And then, like I said, I had a mild episode, like really mild, but it was enough for my brain to go, oh, no, it's coming back. I'm not healed. This isn't going to work. You know, that mindset just kind of going out of control. And I redirected. And I said to myself, you know what? No. First of all, this is kind of using some logic.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:39:44]:
This is a very mild episode. Normally it would be much worse than this. So things have gotten better. And then I would tell myself, we're getting healthy. We're. We're repairing we're working on this. You know, we're still working out the kinks. Like, just reminding myself that it's a process and it's not just gonna be like, oh, my gosh, you're totally healed, and now you can move on with your life.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:40:04]:
Like, I'm going to have to keep doing this work and regulating my system. And, you know, to be honest, when I had the mild episode for two days before, I had been kind of stuck in this loop of overthinking and worrying about several situations. And I also had a stressful encounter. And, like, even though I didn't feel like those were affecting me, they absolutely were. Now that I can actually step back and look at things, it's like noticing that because I've been an overthinker my entire life, connecting the dots to, oh, my gosh, when I was having no symptoms, pretty much I wasn't overthinking. I was living in the moment. I was starting to enjoy my life, et cetera. But these past couple of days, I've been ruminating, and now my body is responding to that.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:40:49]:
And so being able to make that connection was important. And so I think that if people who are going to be doing this work can realize that there's going to be ups and downs and it's going to be taking. You're going to have to take a look at what might be going on and start to connect the dots, and things will continue to get better. So it was a big shift, but it's going to be continued work, which I'm happy about because it doesn't just mean that my physical symptoms are going to be better. It means that, like, I can show up in a different way in the world entirely. I can be a totally different and happier person. And that's right. There is enough.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:41:30]:
Like, that's better than anything else.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:41:31]:
So I think that's really, like, I want to drive that message home over and over and over again to people. It's like, the point of this isn't to, like, get back to life, right? Like, we're not trying to, like, just get over the illness so we can get back to the rat race and get back to, this is a shift. And. And there is that, like, your. Well, first of all, what you just highlighted is, again, like, nothing is happening for no reason, which, again, is terrible. But, like, there's a reason you had a little bit of a flare up, right? And now, you know, it can be. Yes, it's startling, and it can be like, oh, crap, you know, like, it's coming back, which I think is more that old fear stuff, you know, like, that's more that rhetoric of, like, this isn't. This is incurable, or you're, you know, whatever, which makes sense because that's the world we kind of live in.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:42:14]:
But then once you can ground yourself in what you know and what you've been experiencing, it's more like, okay, what can I. How can I connect? Like, what is. What's happening? You know, kind of take a step back, tune in what's been happening in my life. That's what I always ask people, like, what was going on right around the time this all started or, like, you know, what led up to it or whatever. What was the straw that, like, broke the camel's back, so to speak. But that's where you really see symptoms as a conversation. If they're communicating to you, like, hey, pause for a second, right? Like, you're getting back into more of a survival way of being. And, like, can you, like, shift out of that? So in that way, we can have a relationship with our symptoms that is more conversational versus adversarial of, like, crap.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:42:53]:
What do I need to do to get you to go away? It's. It's more like, thank you for reminding me to slow down and breathe and to, like, let go or whatever we need to do. And so that's, you know, that's why this work is empowering, because it's giving you your power back. It's nothing. This isn't random violence against you, right? Your symptoms are just, like, randomly happening. It's.
Kimberly Sleeth [00:43:10]:
Right.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:43:11]:
And it's actually, like you said, it's actually, like, a positive thing, which I know is a hard pill to swallow for folks who are in the thick of it. Like, it's hard to think of this as positive, but it's really trying to get you to shift into a way of being that is more conducive to life, right. To feeling better in your body. And, yeah, this is an ongoing. It's a new way of being, right? Like, you're learning a new way to show up in the world and to show up in your body and in your life. And it does take ongoing concerted effort. I think it starts to get easier as it becomes more normal. But then, you know, life is life, and we're always, things are always going to get thrown at us.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:43:45]:
And like I said, with having kids, like, I feel like I'm thrown right back into stuff and I'm like, okay, starting over again. Life is always going to give us things that are going to challenge us. And so just the more we can, like build that foundation of how to stay in our bodies, stay in relationship with ourselves and our needs and our feelings and I having skills and having things in place that we can use to keep, you know, as regulated as we can. And just one more reminder that I always say is regulation means we're still going to feel stressed, but it's how do we feel it and not get stuck there? How do we not ruminate? How do we not just grow the anthill into a mountain or a molehill or whatever the smaller hill? How do we not let it explode and stay there? Like, how can we get into the activation that is necessary for the stressor we're experiencing and then come back down again so that our body knows the threat has passed, we're safe and we can let go.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:44:42]:
Thanks so much for tuning in to another episode of the Sacred Illness podcast. If you find this information shared here inspirational and educational, please share it with those you think would benefit from this work. To take this work deeper yourself, check out our website, www.aurorasomatic.com, where you can explore our coach, community and course options. And don't forget to subscribe to this channel where new content is coming out all the time intended to inspire, awaken and help you deepen your relationship with yourself, your life and your world.
Dr. Erin Hayford [00:45:13]:
We'll see you next time.
