Dr. Erin Hayford: [00:00:00] Hi everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Sacred Illness Podcast. I'm super excited to have my guest here. Today I'm gonna be talking with Mandy Neill, who is healing from Seattle, Washington. Mandy and I have, similar backgrounds in our, chronic illness journey. She has some autoimmune conditions, three total actually, that all were focused in her gut, which is similar to my story only.
I had one and not three. So we'll be learning from Mandy about her journey with the first two, which is over a 20 year period and just sort of what those looked like and how those showed up for her, and then really how the third one changed the trajectory of her relationship with those illnesses. Before we hit record today, Mandy and I were chatting about this tagline that I use, which I'm even trying to remember where I, because I didn't come up with it, I think I read it somewhere and I was like, that's the question, which is, what is your illness asking you to become?
And that's what my work is really based around is this idea that illnesses. Pulling you into [00:01:00] someone or something, right? Is trying to get you to go on a different track than sort of like the, the traditional track of like illness is bad and suppress it and get rid of it. And so Mandy really resonated with that tagline and you know, that's sort of the journey of when she received this third diagnosis in the last year.
It really pulled her into exploring that question. And so we're gonna look at her journey from the first two into this third one, and then what that looked like and just the rapid changes or just rapid insights and shifts and adjustments to her paradigm that she has gone through in the last year. So, super excited to talk to you today, Mandy.
Thank you so much for willing to come on here and share your story. I think it's just invaluable for us to hear all these different ways in which people approach healing and the pieces that come together to help them get to a different place with their illness and with their bodies and their world, really.
So welcome to the podcast and I can't wait to chat with you today.
Mandy Neill: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Dr. Erin Hayford: So we'll just jump right in. As I had said to you before we hit record, I'd like for [00:02:00] my guests to just tell your story in whatever way it wants to come out, and we'll kind of jump in after that and, you know, see what else we can pull out of it.
But I'll just turn it over to you and let you tell us your story.
Mandy Neill: Sure, thanks. So my health journey actually started, back when I was 19. They found a, hole in my heart, a congenital heart defect that I was born with, but they just never detected. And so I had open heart surgery and that's a whole nother, story and ordeal that I won't get into.
Although the interesting fact of it is I was told afterwards by my cardiologist that the symptoms that first got me into the cardiologist office where they then, found the hole and everything. really wouldn't have arisen from the issue that I had. So it was kind of this miracle that we even found it.
I had been a, varsity athlete in high school and, come to find out that because of this hole in my heart, my lungs and my heart were working like twice as hard. the cardiologist said it actually was this miracle that we found it because, you [00:03:00] might not have made it too much past 40 or 50 without, your heart giving out from the strain of all this.
Wow. So anyways, I bring that up just to say that that was kind of my first experience with this idea of, oh, things can be wrong with my body without me even knowing maybe, so few years later when I'm in college, I was diagnosed with my first autoimmune condition and that was ulcerative colitis.
I had, I really struggled with ulcerative colitis for those first few years. I was hospitalized, you know, a number of times. later after college, I actually ended up having to postpone my wedding because of being hospitalized with ulcerative colitis. And then, a few years after that first diagnosis, I was diagnosed with a second autoimmune condition.
And that one is called primary sclerosis and cholangitis, it's an autoimmune condition of the bile duct, in your liver. And it's very connected to ulcerative colitis. there's only a small percentage of people with uc [00:04:00] that have PSC, but of the people who have PSC, almost all of them have ulcerative colitis, if that makes sense.
So it's very connected, but nobody really quite knows. And so suddenly I became this patient that my gastroenterologist was like presenting at conferences, you know, to try to figure out what do we do with this patient, you know, which is not the patient you wanna be. You don't wanna be the one who, you know, everyone has to weigh in on to figure out.
I was, pursuing all of the normal, you know, western medicine, health practices because I didn't know any different. So I was on prednisone, for a long time. I had the big, moon face from that. I was on all of these, biologic, immune suppressors, all of these things dealing with both of these,
But in the midst of it, I think, you know, psychologically I was determined to just push it down, just try to keep pushing the symptoms down, try to keep powering through. I was very [00:05:00] much, I, I mean, I have wonderful parents, but they, they raised me to have a very strong work ethic and they had very high standards for me.
You know, I was the straight A student, a SB officer, you know, all those things, Growing up. and my mom says I was kind of a perfectionist from the womb, so I don't know how much of that is, you know, nature versus nurture, but very much this perfectionist and a lot of anxiety around letting anyone down,
I just did not wanna let anyone down. I wanted to be seen always as, you know, not only as capable, but like exceeding expectations, right. So in the midst of dealing with, these two autoimmune conditions in my twenties, I wasn't listening to my body. I was trying to suppress it, repress it, everything.
Meanwhile, my body's screaming at me to rest, and I have this one memory. Before I was married, I was living with a roommate, and I was so weak and tired from this, ulcerative colitis flare that she [00:06:00] found me one morning crawling across our apartment to try to get to the bathroom.
She's like, what are you doing? I said, I've gotta get ready, like for the day I've got. And she is like, Mandy, you are literally crawling across the floor. You know, maybe this means you don't go into work today, you know? So anyways, it was just this, you know, not listening at all, just trying to keep going.
So then a few years, later, after being diagnosed, getting married, I got pregnant with my first, and I know some people experience going into remission, with autoimmunes during pregnancy. I had the opposite experience. I had a horrible flare up. I was losing weight instead of gaining weight with the pregnancy.
they had me on so much prednisone that I developed gestational diabetes. my son actually was born seven weeks early on moving day, which is a whole nother saga. they think because of the stress my body was under, that's what caused him to come so early. so [00:07:00] that was kind of a, you know, the pregnancy was not a great thing for me.
So then a few years later, instead of getting pregnant again, we decided to adopt our second son, out of the foster care system. And bless his heart, he, later on came to be diagnosed with a number of, mental health conditions, including, a presentation of autism that's very demand avoidant, right?
So, fast forward a few years, I've got this youngest son who's, in preschool, early elementary school, and I am trying to juggle my autoimmune conditions with working full-time. I had kind of this dream ministry job, but of course I wanted to be perfect at it. And then also parenting this special needs child who bless his heart, was
having these hour long meltdowns daily, I look back on that time and I remember every morning my husband would have to go to work at five 30 in the morning, so it's up to me to get my son to [00:08:00] school and he didn't wanna go to school, which is understandable 'cause school isn't designed, for his neuro divergence.
and so every morning it would be this fight of, you know, can I get him to school? So stressed out and all I remember thinking during that time is, I can't let I. It was this constant fear of, of letting everybody else down. if I don't get 'em to school, the school's gonna be mad at me.
And my boss will be mad because then I'll be late or, you know, all of these things. It was just this constant concern with, with everyone else and pleasing everyone else. So then that took me to kind of, in 2019, I had, I kind of reached a crisis point with the, autoimmune conditions and trying to work full time.
I ended up actually quitting my dream job, which was sad. and my health just kind of tanked at this point, you know, the, the ulcerative colitis and autoimmunes were now affecting other parts of my body, my. Thyroid, had kind of tanked and my adrenals and I was [00:09:00] anemic and B12 anemic and iron anemic
that's when I sought out, a naturopath, which was great 'cause they were much better at, looking at the big picture, a well-rounded approach, trying to get all those levels back up and my health back. but again, every time I would feel better, I'd go right back to, needing to be productive, needing to achieve things, pushing myself, very hard.
So finally in, 2021 after, you know, fighting and it literally always felt like a fight, right? I felt like I was fighting my own body for 18 years. with these two autoimmune conditions. I finally, had to have my entire colon. Removed. So, and also my gallbladder along with it at the time, so I now have a permanent ileostomy.
you know, that in itself was its own adjustment. but I was told after they removed [00:10:00] the colon, you know, the doctor said, well, you don't have ulcerative colitis anymore because you don't have a colon. How could you have ulcerative colitis? So you're, cured kind of. Right. and for a while it was amazing because the pendulum really did swing.
All of a sudden, I'm going on hikes every weekend. I have this energy I hadn't had for two decades. I mean, it was amazing, you know, and for a few years there, it was so great. I thought, this is worth pooping into a bag, you know? Totally. Yeah. That's, I'm finally getting to do all of these things with my life, and it's so fun and it's great.
So then about a year ago, it was December, 2023, I all of a sudden started having pancreatitis attacks and they were recurring attacks and the doctors couldn't figure out why I was having them because I didn't have any of the normal, things that might lead to pancreatitis. I couldn't drink alcohol because of my [00:11:00] liver condition.
I didn't have a gallbladder anymore. You know, all of these things that might cause pancreatitis weren't factors for me. so finally they diagnosed me with my third autoimmune, which was autoimmune pancreatitis. And unfortunately, I spent 13 months really, just battling recurring pancreatitis episodes, not being able to kind of recover ever, or get on top of them.
What was so interesting about that one is, you know, I thought over the last, 20 years by that point of these two other autoimmune conditions, I thought, oh, I've learned so much from these, conditions, right? I mean, I'd even find myself telling people I'm actually kind of thankful because they've taught me how to prioritize my life and, notice what care about what really matters
But, this one, the autoimmune pancreatitis just completely knocked my legs out from under me. I mean, it wasn't just that pancreatitis [00:12:00] itself is extremely painful. But the worst part is afterwards it's, it's this fatigue like I have never experienced before, you know?
And it was this constant fatigue. 'cause I was having these recurring bouts and it got to the point where, I mean, there was times where I felt too tired to even breathe. You know? I was too tired to sit up in bed. I definitely couldn't, I could no longer power through, you know, like I had been before, right?
I couldn't work, I couldn't parent, I couldn't be productive at all. then I think because, it had so much to do with my breathing, this new fear kind of came in, this fear of my body failing me, not being able to breathe So all of that kind of,
Was the impetus, I guess, for this journey that I've been on this last, little over a year, where I have just, I've learned more in this last year than I had learned in the previous 20 years. of battling, with this. So [00:13:00] anyways, that's kind of brings me up to,
Dr. Erin Hayford: date
Mandy Neill: where
Dr. Erin Hayford: I am now.
Yeah. I love that. Well, yeah, and it, there's so many pieces to that and we had kind of talked about when we were first on here before we hit record, how that idea of like the body being like, okay, here's another, maybe this one will get you to tune in. Maybe this one or maybe this one, right?
Yeah. this is why that paradigm shift is so crucial, because it is that, idea of like, the body's trying to get you to tune in, right? It's trying to pull you closer and get you to listen in a different way. And so there's this sort of dance that's happening where if we're not quite getting it or if we're missing a message or missing a piece, then it's like, eh, I'm gonna kind of try to pull you in and, you know, fatigue, depression, like those kind of conditions that really slow you down
You know, make you stuck. Like, I feel like that's, that's kind of the body's way of trying to be like, no, you really need to stop and you really need to tune in because like, you can't keep going. And, and especially for you where your, impetus or your energy was to try to just keep going, keep going, keep going, [00:14:00] keep going for the sake of other Right.
And your body was like, how about you stop and like, figure out yourself and go for yourself. Like, your energy's not going in the right place or whatever. So. Right. so I'm curious, like you had seen a naturopath, so you were kind of like starting to move into that like alternative, whatever you wanna call it, world.
where did you go from there? Like, how did, so like, you know, you said that that resonated, like what's your illness asking you to become? When did you start to have that, like those Aha. Things around your illness that were like beyond just like, I'm Rio. You know, kinda what you were saying, like you had thought you had learned this for your first two diseases or autoimmune conditions, and then it was really the third one that got you to see it through this different lens.
Like, tell us that story. Where did you go from there?
Mandy Neill: Yeah, so what's kind of interesting to give you a little bit of backstory But right before I started having these recurring bouts of pancreatitis. I had to undergo this extensive psych eval, for a [00:15:00] ministry position, that I've been looking at.
and I thought going into it, oh, this is no problem, right? I've been to therapy for years. I know myself really well. I've learned all these great lessons, about myself. Nothing's gonna surprise me coming outta this psyche eval. One of the things that came out is I had to do all these tests, and the psychologist who did the evaluation presented, the findings and he said, in a bunch of these tests, you scored so high in this tendency to, want others to only see the best in you, he said to the level of what we see in addicts who are trying to put on a good face
Keep people from seeing what's really going on. And I was like, it's ridiculous. I don't, you know, I have strong opinions. I, you know, I don't change myself for other people, But I started to realize through, this recurring pancreatitis and this whole journey.
And one of the things I realized in this journey is, oh no, that really is, I really [00:16:00] am. I haven't set up good boundaries in my life. I care too much about, the other, and I'm not giving myself, the attention that it obviously needs. So one of the things I started,
Seeing a therapist, after, this pancreatitis started and this was one of those amazing, I don't know how it happened. I literally googled what I was looking for in a therapist and I found this therapist that is exactly what I needed. just different than anything I'd experienced before.
She does a lot with internal family systems, which has been great for me, but then a lot in, kind of somatic therapy, which was new for me. and she was the one who kind of started saying, you know, your symptoms are not the enemy here. Your symptoms, like you said, it's your body's way of trying to get your attention, you know?
Yeah. And so she started having me, inviting me to talk to my pancreas. And at first I thought, well, this is stupid. I mean, I'm a very pragmatic, you know, we don't talk to our organs like this is. But she, she'd [00:17:00] have me ask my pancreas, you know, what is it you're trying to communicate to me with all of this?
And what kept coming out of these conversations is this idea of, you know, my pancreas telling me, I'm trying to get you to be yourself and I'm trying to get you to live into that and to enjoy your daily life, you know, not to keep planning for the future. not to be pleasing others, just to be enough.
You know, who you are and to, and enjoy the life that you have, you know? And so, and what was so interesting is I kind of kept seeing that confirmed. I kind of got to this point where I was like, okay, Western medicine is kind of failing me. I'm going to turn, you know, like I said, I went to naturopathic medicine, but I also then started exploring more eastern medicine.
and in that, you know, so I'm reading about, you know, yoga and the mind body connection and Chinese medicine, which hopefully we can get more to in a minute. But, and then, like the chakra, you know, system that was all new to me.
Dr. Erin Hayford: Yeah. [00:18:00]
Mandy Neill: And I started realizing, oh, what's so funny is all three of my autoimmunes are centered in this third chakra, you know, the solar plexus chakra.
And the theme of that is kind of this idea of being yourself, right? Setting the boundaries, not letting the expectations of others determine who you are. And so it was very much echoing both what I'd heard from my pancreas and, what I had heard from the psych eval that was kind of my weak point.
Then there also was this other, I started reading some things about kind of this in a few books about, kind of this idea of like the emotional connection with our different anatomy. And that one I looked up, you know, pancreas and, and sure enough it was like pancreas is all about like enjoying the sweetness of life, you know?
So it kind of tied in again to that confirming that, that message of, I just want you to enjoy being yourself, enjoy life. Anyways, so Amazing.
Dr. Erin Hayford: I like, you know, this is the theme I think that's starting to emerge from my podcast in general because it's fascinating.
I said this literally on the last [00:19:00] episode, I just recorded how we all follow the same trajectory. Like, you know, for the most part, right. Obviously we start with what we're familiar with, which for the most part is western medicine, especially when we don't even know what's going on. Like we're seeking a diagnosis.
Yeah. and then there's like something I wrote. Down as you were talking is this idea of like cure in western medicine where they were like, well, we cut your colon out so you can't have colitis. Like that's just like the definition of colitis is inflamed colon. So if you don't have a colon, you're cured.
And I think that just really highlights the difference between how we think we being like, you know, those of us in this mindset, I guess, versus the western medicine mindset about what the cause of illness is, right?
When we start to look at it through these different lenses where it's like in western medicine, they say the cure is, you know, to suppress the co like the physiological process happening in the body or remove the organ. That is the quote unquote problem, right? And then that's done.
But then what happens if it comes back, like, in your case, right? Like [00:20:00] the autoimmune condition was just, or like the tendency for your immune system to attack you that was still in your body, right? Like whatever was causing that to happen
Mandy Neill: mm-hmm. Was
Dr. Erin Hayford: So it's like, okay, well we don't have a colon.
Let's go upstream a little bit. Let's find the pancreas. Right. And you know, we've seen that, like, I think there's some, I can't remember the exact statistic, but it's like 30% of, and because I have Crohn's, right. So we're sort of in that family together where like 30% of people will have the surgery and then, or, or maybe even higher.
No, it's like 30%. Get surgery by this age and every year it's like 10% more likely that you're going to have to have surgery. Okay. and then after that, once you have the surgery, like the likelihood of it recurring similarly is pretty high. so it's basically saying like, you'll have the surgery, it's gonna come back at some point.
Yeah. So to me, like, so in the western medicine mindset, it's kind of like, you know, we're trying to cure it, but it keeps coming back so that in their mindset it's like therefore it's not curable, it's an incurable illness because it keeps coming back in this world. We're saying, well then we're [00:21:00] not actually treating the cause if it keeps coming back.
Like the cause is still in the body. And so again, like what I was like starting to say is the theme in this podcast I think is really rooting into this idea of like, you have to start to see your symptoms and illness through a different lens. You have to change your paradigm, change what you think illness is about, because if you stay in that mindset of like.
It's physiology, it's a physical thing. We don't know why. It's just random, you know, like random violence in the body, like a random, failure, you know, of your, of your system.
And when you switch your paradigm and say like, no, this is a conversation. And it's like, you know, if you keep shutting it up, it's gonna find a different way to try to get your attention. Like, that just feels so much more real, right? Like, that just feels like it makes so much more sense. especially because our bodies are just so damn smart.
You know? Like there's so intelligent, like why else would it be doing that, you know, if it wasn't for some really intelligent reason. Yeah. And so This theme for you of like, be who you [00:22:00] are, enjoy the life you have. I mean, I think so many of us are gonna resonate with that in general because so many of us do have that.
Like people pleasing, outward focus, achievement, whatever mindset. Yeah. So many of us have gut stuff, right? So we're talking about solar plexus, like all of us are gonna be like, yep. That's mm-hmm. In part my story. That was absolutely my story. Mm-hmm.
Like, I think it's a forever unfolding journey, right? But, yeah. So tell us, you were saying like, I, I hope we can talk more about Chinese medicine. So like, what was that, like, the full experience of that for you, or what else did you kind of find through that modality? Because it's such a beautiful way of looking at the body that's so different from Western medicine, and I think it really just helps to further that paradigm shift.
Mandy Neill: yeah, so I, so there was a few things I, I, I. Talk to you briefly before we hit record about just these crazy synchronicities. I mean, I don't know, call it what you will. Maybe it's, you know, the divine God unit of consciousness. I don't know.
but somehow these things kept kind of coming up where I was receiving the help I [00:23:00] needed exactly when I needed it in the form that I needed it in. So one of those things that kept happening, my mo when I don't understand something is to turn to books, let's just read all about it.
Let's, you know, find all the information I can find. And I also will say I'm a cheap person. So I like finding my books at thrift stores or you know, there's tons of little free libraries in Seattle when I go on my walks. There's these little free libraries everywhere. so many times I kept coming across these books at thrift stores, the little libraries, whatever, that were exactly what I needed to read at that time, you know?
Yeah. And I mean, literally, I think it happened at least six times over the last, few months. So this one book I found, it's called, I wrote it down here, it's called Brave New Medicine, a Doctor's Unconventional Path to Healing. And it's about this, gal who was an md. and she, developed these autoimmune symptoms.
Nobody could figure it out. It's kind of her [00:24:00] memoir of this experience. she started turning also towards more eastern modalities. I think she ended up opening a functional medicine clinic in San Francisco. But it was a great book.
what I really loved about it is She talked a, a bunch about how acupuncture and Chinese medicine was so, vital to her healing process. And I'd heard about, you know, acupuncture for years, But I thought, it doesn't make sense to me, So this book actually, got me to pursue acupuncture and Chinese medicine, herbal, Chinese medicine and things as well.
And I still don't fully understand why it works, but nothing has been as helpful to me in this last year as acupuncture and herbal medicine There's something to be said. And what I love about it is it's this idea of, you know, we in western medicine, we kind of silo the medical practice, right?
You've got your gi, I was seeing a liver doctor, I was seeing, you know, all of these things. And they're not [00:25:00] communicating With each other. And Chinese medicine looks, similar to, naturopathic medicine, it's looking at the body as this, they use the metaphor a lot of, like, your body's like a garden, right?
You have all of these different factors, you know, and if your garden is getting too much sun or too much water, or not enough water all of these things play in. and so it's looking at it from this holistic viewpoint. And then the other thing that I kind of got out of this book, which is kind of funny, but has been surprisingly helpful.
She said in the book, if you can't make it to acupuncture or can't afford it, or, you know, whatever. She recommended at least trying Qigong and Qigong, like Tai Chi is a type of Qigong apparently. So, you know, it's that thing you see people doing moving slowly in the park, you know? and the reason behind that was she said, you know, Qigong is designed to work the same meridian system that you're, accessing in acupuncture.
And at first I thought, well, this is ridiculous. I mean, how is this [00:26:00] exercise? It just, it looks silly, you know, whatever. Again, something came across my path that was challenging. You know, if you have chronic illness, try doing it every day and just see. So the other thing that's kind of funny about Qigong, you're supposed to do it.
You're encouraged to do it out in nature. It has a big, you know, natural element, involved with it. And so, every morning we actually have backyard chickens. So every morning I would go out and free range my chickens. And do my Qigong in my backyard. I kept thinking, what are my neighbors?
They're probably at their window, like, this crazy woman is doing these weird movements with chickens wandering around her legs, you know? That's so funny. but I mean, I still, again, I've read books about it. I can't tell you why it works, but I feel so good after I do Qigong. So yeah, that was just kind of another, example of both kind of the synchronicity, but also the Eastern mess.
And the other one, I'll tell one more story about, about that. I, another one is that I started to read a little bit [00:27:00] about reiki, which is, you know, this Japanese, art of Reiki healing. And, you know, I looked into it, but, you know, Reiki healers charge quite a bit of money. Insurance doesn't cover it.
And I thought, I don't, I don't really trust that this isn't, you know, maybe it's too woo woo. I don't know. So, but I happened to just mention it to this woman at my church. I don't even know how it came up in conversation. And she was like, oh, I actually have a friend who's trained in reiki. I'll connect you.
And so, you know, we connected and I thought, oh, she's gonna wanna charge me a hundred dollars an hour, you know, and I'm not really willing to pay it for this thing that I don't know if it's gonna actually work. anyways, bless her heart, this gal, as kind of her idea of like a tithe offers free Reiki sessions sometimes.
And so she chose to give, so once a month I was going to her for these reiki sessions. And, and again, I can't explain, you know, anything about it, but all I know is that. you know, with reiki, they're often not touching you. It's, it's kind of this, [00:28:00] you know, working with your energy and, my eyes would be closed and I could feel where she was in my body because I could feel the energy, you know, in that spot in my body.
And she was able to sense a lot of things that I hadn't told her at all about my body. She said, you know, I, I'm not getting this sense that a cure is in your, you know, in your future or whatever. It's, but healing is, and she said, and healing can happen on all these different levels, you know, so maybe it doesn't look like this.
You don't, you don't have this autoimmune condition anymore, but maybe you're finding, you know, psychological healing and, and all of these other, areas of healing so
Dr. Erin Hayford: beautiful.
Mandy Neill: Anyways.
Dr. Erin Hayford: and I'd be curious to hear your feelings about that, because I. Posted a little while ago, like af so I was one of the people who had a remission, or like my Crohn's has not been, is not like, I don't think of it as active, I think of it as like, pretty well into remission.
and I, you know, but I, I had like [00:29:00] nothing flare up or anything like that. So, you know, if you wanna say it was in remission during my pregnancy, I had, you know, the immune suppression thing happen mm-hmm. During my pregnancy, but then it flared up after, so not after my first son, but after my second one.
'cause it was kind of like that, like my immune system was just like refiguring itself out. I had two kids, you know, like the stress wasn't just high, I wasn't sleeping. It was the perfect storm. And so I kind of have come into this relationship with my body where I think of. My Crohn's disease as sort of like, I don't know, like a barometer or something.
It's like, how are you doing? Like how connected or disconnected are you from yourself? And when you're really disconnected and when things are just really off track. I mean, obviously life is life and two kids is two kids But, you know, there was just a lot of factors that were like off track.
I was in a really different mindset that wasn't helpful. So I had a flare up and it humbled me and brought me back into this place of, having to almost practice what I was preaching. 'cause I feel like I was saying it, but then I wasn't doing it and so my body was like, hello, this doesn't work this way.
you actually have [00:30:00] to do it. You can't just understand it. Right. so long story short, my relationship with this word healed and healing or cure is sort of like, I don't think of it as like, and I think this is maybe a western mindset where we have this idea of like, Bad and then good, like here and then gone, you know?
Yeah. When I, and what I'm starting to kind of come into, again, relationship with or understanding about it, is healing is just like, we're always healing, we're always moving through stuff and learning stuff. I mean, and it depends on how much we're paying attention or how interested we are in that or whatever.
Yeah. your whole life, you're uncovering pieces of who you are and you're finding different ways to exist in the world. And obviously life changes too, so you have to change and move with it. so I think of it as more of like a mindset and a dance, and my Crohn's is sort of this thing that comes and goes depending on.
How in tune or out of tune or, you know, it's just sort of this thing that kind of pulls me back into my body when I need that. that's how I'm sitting with it nowadays. I'm wondering about yourself, like how do you think of it?
Mandy Neill: Yeah, so I think one of the things that was so [00:31:00] helpful for me, that again my therapist kind of helped me to realize is that, you know, maybe this idea of quote unquote healing is when we can bring our bodies into, into more alignment being integrated.
I mean our, our, our whole selves being integrated. So what I was doing and what my therapist pointed out that I was doing, you know, I, so going back to, you know, all of these, you know, 20 years of autoimmune conditions, I felt like almost every time I went to a doctor's appointment, I. They would again reiterate, okay, because you have both uc and PSC, your chances of cancer are exponentially greater.
And it was just this constant, you know, your chance of cancer, your chance of, you know, whatever. Death ultimately.
Dr. Erin Hayford: You only go so far until that
Mandy Neill: Yeah. But I just remember I'd come outta every doctor appointment just feeling like my body is broken, like this is. You know, ridiculous. I no longer [00:32:00] saw it as a good thing.
I was, like I said earlier, it was very much this fight against your body all the time. So I shut off my body and I wouldn't listen to it at all. And in the same way, even I think my heart a little bit, because there was so much fear there wrapped up in what I was facing, that it was easier to just kind of shut off my emotions a little bit too.
Dr. Erin Hayford: Yep.
Mandy Neill: So my therapist pointed out, you're living almost fully in your mind. Like, which worked for me, right? Because I'm an organized person, I've got good executive function skills. I'm a planner, you know, so it was just this power through with my mind. Don't listen to my emotions, don't listen to my body.
And so what I finally was able to do, you know, because of this autoimmune pancreatitis and working with the therapist and doing somatic, work is, I finally was starting to listen to my body. And what's crazy, as you said earlier, our bodies are smart, right? and I started discovering this intuition that apparently had been [00:33:00] there for 20 years, but I unfortunately missed out because I was ignoring it, you know?
But our bodies have this crazy intuition of what we need. And so now every day I can wake up and I ask my body, what do you need today? And I can tell, you know, oh, I, I need to do some yoga. I need to go for a walk. I need to sit on this acupressure pad. Actually, I think you were the one who, I saw, oh, yeah, you got that.
Yeah, I did get that. you know, or yeah, during the day, you know, I'll be sitting at my computer working and, and I'll ask my body, what do you, well, I need to walk around the block, you know? And every time it's true. It's exactly what my body needed. and even with food too, right? Like I always used to hear about intuitive eating.
And I was like, well, that's ridiculous. I just eat sugar all the time. But once I could kind of tap in, take the sugar outta my system and tap into this intuition, it's crazy how, I'll all of a sudden crave this thing that might have a mineral that I haven't had in a long time.
Or, you know, you can really kind of trust your body's intuition. and [00:34:00] also kind of that idea of, of de-stressing, right? Like, I realized, okay, I wanna give my cells of my, our cells are constantly recreating, right? I wanna give them the best atmosphere, you know, I wanna feed them the best food because that food is literally forming my cells.
And I don't want them to be bathed in stress hormone, which is how I lived for years. You know, I want to give them this good kind of atmosphere and de-stressing. The other side of that is that emotional side too. So it's integrating, you know, I've got the mind and I'm trying to get the body back online.
one of the things my therapist had me do is, I kind of realized, you know, the 20 years of health stuff, I'd never really processed my grief and my anger, you know, I just shoved them all down. 'cause again, those weren't pleasant emotions.
When I started with her, she'd say, you know, can we sit with that fear for a while? And I'd be like, no, I don't wanna sit with that fear. That sounds horrible, you know? But, she actually had me do this grief journal and because I like artistic [00:35:00] expression. I created this kind of collage grief journal, but, was able to go through all of these points in my life, you know, and deal with the fear and the grief and all those things that were coming up and then was able, I'm able now to look back and see these patterns, you know, that were emerging.
it seems to me like that's kind of this idea of yeah, you know, you're right. I won't ever probably be cured, you know, of these autoimmune conditions, but maybe health looks like living in a more integrated way, you know? listening to our bodies and, what it needs, in different situations.
Dr. Erin Hayford: And I feel like this idea of cured is like, it's almost like we somehow rise above the human condition. You know? It's like becoming impervious to how life affects us, which is just not, that's not, you know, I think that's like spiritual bypassing and all these, like, just be happy thoughts and, you know, it's as if we can ever reach this place of like being untouchable, right?
Which is just not, it's not what human being human is. I feel like this is like, you know, again, coming back to that paradigm shift is [00:36:00] like you said it a few times, like you started in this mindset of like, my body is broken. And that's a normal understandable response because of the western mindset, the, you know, maybe the universal mindset for the most part of this relationship we have with pain and discomfort and illness, right?
Yes, of course illness is a sign that something is wrong. but not in the way we think. Like, not in the way of like, my body just broke, my body just failed, or my body is like messing up, for no reason or whatever. But we often shift into that place of enemy. It's so interesting 'cause I like to listen to if there's similarities between people who have certain diagnoses and the kind of mentality and relationship that led up to that illness.
You know, we both have, irritable bowel disease is kind of the heading they give to colitis and Crohn's. Right. And I was that same way of just like, shut off from the body, shut off from the emotions, like, put on this happy face, make sure people saw you in this really specific light. like ignore, ignore, ignore.
I totally shifted into that place. I had, like you said, really good executive function. I got through [00:37:00] all these things and just for all intents and purposes looked fine. even to me I feel like I anesthetized my body. I was good at somehow ignoring the pain and the fatigue and it's amazing what you can will yourself to do, sometimes.
Yes. so it is this like, again, it has, there has to even just be this willingness to like shift. And if we don't have that willingness to shift the mindset or get curious or see it through this different lens, that's okay. the body will find its way to like, essentially pull you into it at some point.
And, you know, I don't know like why some people find this path and why others don't, you know, who knows? Like there's bigger things at play here that we'll never fully understand, but, we have this thing that happens where the body gets sick, starts producing symptoms, it's trying to pull us in, but we're programmed currently to do the opposite, to tune it out, to override it, to shut it down, right?
And so this shift has to happen, right? Where we, and the thing that I say often is that bodies don't fail. They respond, like you were saying, like they're wise. they're basically like they're processing [00:38:00] life, right? And everything that's happening to us on all levels, mind, body, spirit, like inside, outside around the body is sort of the like.
It's like the Petri dish or something where it's all gonna grow and you know, like it produces whatever it's being given. So to think of it as just this like failure is so unfair to the body, the body's like, I'm just, I'm just responding to what is happening. Right. And like holding things that you're not ready to hold.
There's like, yeah, like it keeps the score right. And so when we can start to really see it as this intelligent place where all of the things that we're experiencing and feeling and thinking or not feeling or repressing are living and just kind of like waiting for us to dance with and have a relationship with.
Then it's like, oh yeah, the body didn't fail. It's just responding to all this stuff that's happening. And because of the way that we are disconnected and we are, you know, so like outward focused and productivity focused we're just naturally disconnected from the body. And so the body getting sick makes sense as a response to that disconnect.
[00:39:00] Yeah. so obviously this is where we get into that. I feel like so many of my conversations get to that point too, where so much has to shift in order for our mindset to shift and for us to, have the proper relationship with our body. But I feel like that's also why Qigong is such an amazing, modality or therapy or whatever you wanna call it, because you're going into your body and you're moving that energy
It's not getting stagnant or anything like that. and so it sounds like your practice is daily Qigong, some herbal medicine. Tell us what you're doing right now to take care of yourself.
Mandy Neill: Kind of all the things. Yeah.
But again, that's where that kind of comes into play, that asking my body, what do I need today? I don't have time to do, you know, all this stuff. But yeah, the Qigong and I'm, I'm still going to acupuncture and, yoga has been very helpful and that was something that I kind of, you know, barely dabbled in but didn't really quite understand.
but finding, you know, I've just found yoga practitioners, you know, online or whatever, but who can really explain like, this is what's happening in your body. This is how you breathe, you know, to make this, [00:40:00] this, whatever, a sauna or pose, you know, work or Yeah. Whatnot. yeah, and just, you know, getting out in nature, doing, going on walks.
yeah, again, de I've radically destressed. I thought I had kind of de-stressed my life as much as I could before, but I actually just quit one of my jobs because, That was interesting. I don't know if other people will, will resonate with this, but maybe you've heard that, that metaphor of, people with autoimmune or with, chronic illness have the spoon metaphor.
Yeah. It's this idea of we're given, you know, a certain number of spoons of energy each day. maybe the normal person is given a hundred. Maybe you have a day where you're only given 20 and already you're spending six of 'em, getting ready in the morning So it's this idea of having to really, prioritize our, our spoons, quote unquote, of energy.
Well, one of the things that another kind of maybe synchronicity. event is, I don't know if you've heard of Martha Beck, but she is a life coach. She keeps coming up. Stuff of hers keeps coming up like [00:41:00] exactly at the time that I need it, but for somehow, some podcast came up, unexpectedly and she was elaborating on this spoon metaphor, saying, you know, when you are living kind of aligned with your purpose and who you truly are, then those actually give you more spoons, right?
So I kind of came to this realization. One of the jobs I had been doing, I liked it, it was a great job. it was using kind of those executive function, gifts that maybe I had, but it wasn't aligned with who I felt like I really was and what was really mine to do. And so I realized it was kind of taking away spoons, if that makes sense.
These other things that I was so passionate about, were giving me more spoons. So anyways, all that to say, I've kind of radically shifted, I quit a job. I'm looking in a totally different direction, Just kind of tried to take a lot of those expectations, of others completely off my plate as much as I can.
Dr. Erin Hayford: Yeah. And I'm sure easier said than done. 'cause that's a major program [00:42:00] to reprogram, deprogram, reprogram, whatever, right? Like to override that.
Mandy Neill: Yeah. And it's so, you know, like you said, I mean, I'm a parent. there's some stress you can't get rid of. you need to make money to survive, you know, you need to do something.
But, but yeah, just trying to make those shifts wherever I can. And actually if I could, one of the things that actually I think really helped me to realize that also was your program. I don't even remember how I found you. I think it just kind of came up in the algorithm on social media.
But I did your 30 day reset program, I think this last fall. And, one of the things you had us do was come up with this kind of, I don't know what you called it, but like a, like a mission statement.
Dr. Erin Hayford: Yeah. Vision statement.
Mandy Neill: Yes. Thank you. and then do this, guided meditation for 10 minutes every day.
that was so, powerful for me because my vision statement was all about not needing to plan out and be in control of my day, not needing to please others, just, being fine with who I am and enough with who I am and taking it a day at a time. [00:43:00] when I first started doing the meditation, you'd have us visualize like, what does it feel like in our body?
If we were actually living that way. Right. And it was so, it was so enlightening to me because I just thought, oh my gosh, I feel so expansive. You know, this is like this freedom feeling that I haven't felt before. And because it felt so good, I literally didn't miss a day. 'cause I was like, I want that feeling for 10 minutes, you know?
Yes. Every day. But that really helped me to shift into like, oh, this, this is what this feels like. I'm really craving that now. I'm going to do whatever I need to do and maybe make some hard shifts to make that, you know, come to fruition. So I love
Dr. Erin Hayford: Yeah. It's so interesting to just embody what's possible. and then, you know, part of the work too is like typically we start to have limiting beliefs or challenges or things coming up saying like, well you can't have that because blah, blah, blah.
And that's where the work lies. 'cause those are the beliefs and the things that are like the [00:44:00] conditioning and the programming that is kind of keeping us stuck in these patterns that are not serving us and not in alignment with our higher self or our energy, or whatever you wanna call it.
And it's amazing when you are aligned, like you're saying, the amount of energy that actually you get from it, which is again, not what you think when you're technically exerting energy or doing something like you expect it to make you tired. but when you're doing the thing that actually is, who you are in alignment with your soul or whatever you believe.
Yeah. Like this podcast, it, you know, I'm so energized right now because I love this. I wish I could just do this and get paid, but obviously I don't, so I have to do other things. But like this to me is like an example of that, right? Like I can talk to someone for an hour and be like, oh my God, I'm done for the day.
Like, I'm tired. Like, that just drained me. I can talk on my podcast with people for like hours and, feel like a spring chicken afterward, you know? It really is like, yeah, to bring it back to that tagline, like, who is your illness inviting you to become? Or what is it asking you to become?
Like it's really trying to say like, who are you? Yeah. Like you were saying, like, who am I? And how do [00:45:00] I really just enjoy this life in the moment that I have right now? Yeah. Right. Like, that's ultimately like, what is the point of life, if not that, to just Yeah. Be yourself and to enjoy it and to find your path that is an alignment with it.
And I think that's kind of going back to that idea of healing, I think we come into the world, we get programmed the things that we kind of come up against in our life. Take us off track. And I kind of, you know, part of me feels like it's part of it, right? Like I think we're here to kind of learn and evolve through certain patterns.
That's my belief system anyway. and so then we are sort of like peeling it back to get back to that, that core person. And that's, that's healing, right? It's like how do I become more myself? It's just this constant journey of becoming as we move through life and the closer and more aligned we get, the more energized, the more happy, the more free we become.
Mandy Neill: Yeah,
Dr. Erin Hayford: yeah. It is that feeling of freedom. Like I think that is, that feeling of alignment is like, I just feel unburdened and like excited and energetic and, you know, it's just, it's a, everyone should have that. I want everyone to have that [00:46:00] feeling. And that's the point of this podcast, right? Is to be like, this is what, this is the gift.
The gift of illness. Truly. Like this is what illness is trying to pull you toward. and again, it's, it's a mindset shift. 'cause we have to, if we can see it that way, then we can see really what it can like open up and unlock for us.
Mandy Neill: Yeah. And I think, that's kind of the point of our lives, right?
I mean, I've read a lot about this idea. Thomas Merton called it the True Self and the False Self, or Carl Young called it, the self capital s but just this idea that we're created, whatever maybe you believe, it's a seed of the divine or God or your soul, or whatever.
But, we're created in this true self. And then, like you said, as we go through life, we keep putting on this kind of false self, right? These layers of, oh, I've gotta do this to earn love, or I've gotta, do this to succeed, or whatever. and just that kind of needing, like we saw it with the needing to please other people.
And so it seems to me like, I mean, it's so amazing to me that. That freedom to live into our true self is [00:47:00] available. And yet, for most of our lives, I think we kind of go through our lives not really realizing, you know, that that's even there I think our chronic illness is kind of a gift, you know, I think a lot of people maybe don't get to that point until later on in life.
we're kind of forced to address it earlier, but in the process come to that place of The true self, the integrated self, you know, yeah. That place of freedom, that's, that's, just feels so much better than the way I was living the last, 20 years.
Dr. Erin Hayford: Absolutely. Yeah. And I can't remember if I read this somewhere or if someone, I don't remember where I came across it, but I think it was actually someone I was talking to on a podcast on one of my episodes. She was saying, That basically like you, what you were kind of saying, like people who get sick are almost like called into this alignment like earlier.
And she was like, it's almost, you know, it's like you have a purpose and you need to get to that purpose now. Like now, not tomorrow. so, you know, to kind of plant that seed for folks with chronic illness too, it's like, think of it as like you are being called in [00:48:00] with more urgency back to yourself because you have something that you are here to do or a purpose you're here to fill and it doesn't have to mean that you have to have some big job it's just like you and your aligned purest form, however you wanna say it, you are needed.
Yeah. And your illness is really, it's trying to pull you faster into that space than, like you said, someone who doesn't have illness. Would maybe find their way onto this path. Yeah. You know, I think all of us find, you know, have these concepts or have these things tumbling around of like, who am I and what is my purpose?
And that sort of thing. but those with illness are, again, like, there's a need for it to happen maybe sooner than later. So, yeah, I think that's a way to root into the, it's almost like you're special and it's, it's, you know, I think your story is so interesting 'cause I've heard that too, of like you were saying your doctors were bringing, you was bringing your story to like case studies and it's like, oh my God.
Like, what's wrong with me? Why am I the black sheep? Or why am I the different one? And Yeah. You know, a lot of us with illness feel that way. Like, no one in my family had chronic illness or, you know, it was like, why me? Like, why am I this? [00:49:00] Right. Kind of like weirdo that has this disease and like getting these procedures that people, you know, like colonoscopies at 20 years old and my, you know, no one's gonna get that until they're 50 or older.
but it's because you are different and it's because of a good thing, you know, it's actually like right this blessing in disguise or whatever of like, yes, you are different, you're sticking out, but it's because there's something in you that is really asking to come forward and this is the path to finding that.
So, yeah. And I am curious for you, like if you've, 'cause you had mentioned like walking away from your dream job and ministry. Like, are you moving toward that for yourself? Like how do you feel like you are what is it bringing out for you in terms of like coming into alignment with yourself and that idea of purpose and like gifts and that sort of thing.
Like what are you uncovering for that in yourself?
Mandy Neill: I think I'm just finally discovering, you know, I had always taken these jobs that were very administrative in nature, right? Because again, that was kind of, I knew I could, receive positive [00:50:00] affirmation because I was an organized person, right? So I knew, okay, I can do a good job. I'll get the affirmation, I need, I can be that perfect employee, quote unquote, or whatever.
And I think just really realizing, yeah, but that's not, that's kind of, that's kind of that false self, you know, thing that I've lived into, right? My true self, I love, I'm actually, heading towards ordination and the Lutheran Church. I love teaching people. I love, I've been trained as a spiritual director, which is kind of, anyways, walking alongside people in their faith journeys and kind of more the spiritual side of their life, than maybe like a psychologist would.
but just to have discovered kind of that passion. And I think that I can see also that, you know, what I've had to deal with, with my health issues, with my special needs son. it really, helps me to, be able to empathize with other people, so much more because I have these conversations with, 70-year-old women that are my church, you know, and I'm like, okay, even though I'm only 40, I totally understand what you're going through because I've already [00:51:00] experienced, a lot of it as a 40-year-old.
Right. Which is, yeah, normally it used to be this, you know, oh, I'm the only sick one of my friends. I'm the only one who has to deal with all these things, but it actually becomes this gift, you know, where I can really, I think it just helps me to relate, you know, to people and meet people where they're at.
Dr. Erin Hayford: Absolutely. Yeah. I think ultimately it's a humanizing experience and it brings you deeper into what we were saying, like the purpose of life and what it means to be alive and regardless of how, you could work at Burger King and that would still translate in an important way, right?
there's an aliveness that comes into a person when you start to see it in that way that ripples outward, no matter where you are in life or what your work is. And I think that's the gift and the shift that happens when you walk this path.
So, I have one more question and then we can wrap up. 'cause I feel like I could keep talking. I have so many like things bolded and highlighted that I wanna talk about. the one thing like the mindset shift that happened for you, 'cause you had mentioned like, you know, being very logical and like.
basically like you were starting to move into the woo, [00:52:00] right? Like for, and I hate that word 'cause it makes it seem like it's not legit, but it is legit, right? Like these modalities you started to use and the fact that you had to sort of like have a conversation with your pancreas, right? Like that's hard for people to, that's a hard pill to swallow, especially if you are, you know, very much in the like whatever mindset, like different mindset around this.
So for you, was it just a like, well nothing else has worked, so might as well give this a try. Like what, and maybe you're still skeptical, which is also can happen, right? Even if you see things helping, sometimes we're still skeptical of it or whatever, but yeah. how did you start, how did you shift, I guess?
how did you allow yourself to be open to this or even start to see it as truth or real or you know, whatever that is.
Mandy Neill: Yeah, that is a good question. I think it was kind of a slow process. I was raised to think, Western medicine is the only way to go.
That's all I knew, right? I was raised in an evangelical, Christian household where it was very much like, this is the one truth, And I think in all [00:53:00] aspects of my life, I've just been discovering over the years. That's ridiculous. even spiritually speaking,
It doesn't make, it doesn't make any sense that there, that only this one narrow viewpoint would be the one truth, right? Truth is bigger than that. Like there's truth to be found across all religions and all spiritualities and all of these practices, you know, and and so I think just in kind of all areas of my life, I've kind of started to shift towards this, you know, just not being, viewing things so narrowly as I was raised, but being open to the fact that.
Yeah, that, I was raised with a saying, all truth is God's truth. like all truth, you know? there's truth in everything. it's not as limited, I think, as we think. And so, yeah, it was just really interesting with the, eastern medicine part. It did kind of come a little bit from that.
Like, well, I'm grasping at straws here, you know, nothing seems to be working so great. I'm going to open my mind up to other possibilities. And sure enough, as I'm reading these other [00:54:00] possibilities and learning about them, I just started realizing, I mean, this makes sense to me,
Yes. I can't, I can't prove any of it. Or, you know, I, I, I don't know how our energy systems, you know, work and, and, and all this, but. We're so, I mean, even in science, right? We're, we're learning so much more. We used to think that atom was, you know, the smallest thing. And, and now we're discovering that, oh, there's quantum energy.
Like there's, you know, the majority of an atom is actually energy. Anyways, it's just, I, I love reading about, you know, I actually started trying to start reading about some quantum, you know, physics, and I was like, oh, this is way over my head. but it's just so fascinating because we're always discovering more, right?
And so my, I think my mindset has kind of become, you know, don't rule anything out just because whatever, you know, you haven't seen proof of it or a double blind study or, or, or whatever. I think there's so much more happening than. Beneath the surface, you know, energy wise, [00:55:00] spiritual wise, all those things that, that, that we just, you know, aren't ever gonna be able to explain and kind of finding some freedom in that mystery.
You know, it's exciting to kind of, I mean, yes, it's frustrating to not know all the answers or why things work, but also it kind of opens up to, you know, there's so many possibilities. It's, you know, if one thing's not working, maybe something else will. And anyways, yeah. Kind of appreciating that mystery, I think.
Dr. Erin Hayford: Yeah, absolutely. I have this conversation a lot with my husband and other people about this idea of like. we don't like, I mean, we're wired to not like the unknown because the unknown is unpredictable and it's unsafe. And our nervous system is like, blah. You know, it doesn't like that.
from a survival perspective, that makes sense. But from a reality perspective, it's very limiting. And it can, lead us to dead ends, right? Or just a place of like really defeated, like, I guess this is my only option because this is the only thing that, we have studies on.
Or, you know, we can believe the diagnosis, which is [00:56:00] like, this is what's physiologically happening in your body. But if we just like fully fall into that mindset of like, and this is the prognosis and this is what it means, and this is what it's gonna lead to, you know, we're limiting ourselves because we're saying that, you know, one, it's a one size fits all.
And based on these studies and based on what we know, like this is what's gonna happen. And I always say that yes, if we do nothing else, you know, and we follow the typical treatments, that probably is what's gonna happen. 'cause that's what happens when you do this, Right? I think science, like people are, and it's almost like we've weaponized science now as this word of like, if, you know, the science doesn't say that.
So if you believe something different, basically you're an idiot or, you know, yeah. It's just really vicious. And, yeah, I think it's really depressing because like you're saying it, it just, it like cuts you off from like the beauty and the magic and the mystery and like, I just think life is, I know life is so much richer than, than what meets the eye and what can be proven.
And thank goodness, like I don't want everything to be like defined. 'cause then it's like, oh, that's that. I guess that's like [00:57:00] boring done. You know, like It's nice and necessary for there to be a possibility. You know, I think we'd all have depression if there was no possibility.
And so I think it is really stretching that, you know, if you're getting outta your comfort zone a little bit and moving into that place of really surrender and trust and open-mindedness of just like, I am willing to believe that something else could happen. part of that PO this podcast is for that reason to be like, these are different ways in which people have engaged in their illness and their diagnoses.
Mandy Neill: yeah. And look
Dr. Erin Hayford: it shifted things, you know? the science, the research, the case studies show this and like, these people who did this show this. So it's all real technically. So like, you know, what does that mean?
I love that, that you already kind of had that. there can't just be one truth. So then I guess let's just see what happens, right? if nothing's working, you might as well try, you know? oh gosh, I appreciate this conversation so much and it just touches on so many important things for people to hear.
Like, you know, I think it's, it gives hope. It, it plants [00:58:00] that seed of possibility, which is so needed when we have hit dead end after dead end and, you know, chronic illness journeys. And so I, I just so appreciate all the ways in which you're talking about Yeah. Like the mindset and the approach and the, the kind of trajectory you followed.
Before we wrap up, I'm just wondering if there's anything else you wanna say. I'm looking at our notes. I think we touched on all the things you wanted to make sure you were, talking about. yeah. is there anything else before we, like in your notes or anything that we didn't get to that you wanna share before we wrap up today?
Mandy Neill: I don't think so. This was a great conversation. I loved, yeah. I just, I love these opportunities of, you know, someone who gets it and, and understands, and that's why I found so much value in listening to your previous podcast episodes, you know, 'cause I feel like every episode I'm gleaning, little bits that really helped me and in whatever process I was facing at the moment.
So, yeah.
Dr. Erin Hayford: So glad that, yeah. I'm so glad you found this. And, you know, for all its flaws, social media is wonderful for making these connections that would never otherwise exist, so, right, right. Grateful that our paths [00:59:00] crossed and we got to work together and get to do this. Thank you for again, being willing to share your story and Yeah, I mean, I think this is the medicine, right?
Like, if we can just normalize this and make this, like make people aware that this exists. You know, like if people can find this. When they first get diagnosed or before they get diagnosed, right? Is like the stuff we're talking about here doesn't have to just start once you get sick. Like we can start to lean into these nudges and intuitions.
Like I think that's another whole conversation we could have of what was happening before you got sick that maybe was trying to pull you, in a different direction. But yeah, I don't even remember now 'cause it was so long ago. I'm sure there were things that were trying to get my attention, but the illness is what did it.
so thank you Mandy. Thank you so much for being here, sharing your story. I will put the, you had mentioned like a book and Qigong. I'll just put those references down in the show notes so people can look into those resources and if there's, once we end, if there's other books you want me to add, I can add those too.
so if anyone's curious about the books or things that she mentioned, look down in the show notes so you can get some links. And, thank you [01:00:00] all for tuning in and we'll see you next time.
