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Robyn Watt: it was the Friday morning of that week where I woke up really early and just had this feeling that today was the day I was gonna find out. until that point I'd still been hoping it would just be autoimmune. It would still be Hashimoto's. Even though the surgeon had told me it was likely to be lymphoma, I still had this feeling like maybe it's not, maybe I can't have cancer.
I'm 38, I have three children, I'm really healthy. Like it can't actually be cancer. but I had this feeling that morning when I woke up so I logged into the account and the results were in and they were in red, which I know
means bad news. So I actually ended up getting my stepdad, I got him out of bed and he opened up the results that's how I found out I had cancer. It was my stepdad.
He just read it off the computer screen and said, it's aggressive. diffuse B-cell, non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. It was a very difficult moment and I was devastated because, I didn't know what it meant.
But I will say that in that moment when my stepdad was reading that [00:01:00] out I also had this moment of clarity where it felt like a light was shone where, I got it.
It was like, I know what this is. I know why this is here. I know what it's coming to do. This is an intervention in a life that has become completely unsustainable. it was like this flash of understanding or this insight into my life,
You thought you could handle everything, but a human body can't do all of those things that you were doing. It's not sustainable. You could do it for some time, but you can't keep on doing that. This is your permission slip to do something completely different. And it was so clear that it felt like a hand that was reaching down to guide me.
It was like, okay, we're gonna get you out of this now. and I knew that I wasn't gonna be. Someone that was fighting cancer or like a cancer warrior, I knew it wasn't a fight against the cancer. from the very [00:02:00] moment I heard that diagnosis, I knew that I was gonna be fighting alongside it to come back to myself.
Dr. Erin Hayford: Hi everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Sacred Illness Podcast. I'm so honored and excited today to be sitting with Robyn Watt from Ontario Canada. Robyn and I met, I don't even know how these connections happen, but we, we know each other through Instagram. We've been connected through there for quite a, a while now.
Robyn recently reached out to talk about, coming on the podcast because she has been going through a journey with cancer and has been called to share her story with us today. Robyn used to work as a social worker. In the crisis sector. And so that's relevant to story, the her story just with burnout and kind of everything leading up to the moment of diagnosis.
So I think what's going to be really beautiful about this story is you can see this arc of buildup, illness, and then as you said, Robyn, this initiation, of what the illness was, an invitation to change course. everything leading up to that diagnosis and everything that's, come after that.
in the recovery phase, [00:03:00] which you're in currently, and all the work that you're, being called toward in your future. moving away from more social work and more into forest therapy and animist work and just the things that have been really calling to you previously.
And that's how we met. That's how I saw you or knew you on Instagram was through that lens. So it'll be really interesting and beautiful to see how that unfolds on the other side. I could go on, but I wanna hear your story, Robyn. welcome. Thank you so much for being here, and let's jump in and, start at the beginning or wherever feels relevant for you to begin your story
Robyn Watt: Thank you. Thank you so much for the opportunity to speak with you today. when I first got my diagnosis, I listened to this podcast a lot and that's when I reached out to you because it had really helped me understanding that there's a deeper meaning to the illnesses many of us encounter that there's this undercurrent.
it was really helpful for me to listen to the podcast. now being able to come on here and talk with you about it feels like a full circle moment. thank you for that.
Dr. Erin Hayford: Well, yeah, I remember you messaging me and saying that [00:04:00] that was helpful and it like, that's the point of this, right?
Is to like, give folks hope and meaning and a deeper like foundation to sink into right. When we're sick. So yes. I love that it is full circle. And so appreciative of you feeling inspired to come basically. pay it forward and share your story and your medicine with us here today.
Robyn Watt: So I've thought a lot about where the story of the cancer diagnosis starts. so I just wanna preface what I'm saying with the fact that everyone who experiences an illness, especially cancer, is gonna experience it in their own way. everything that I want to say about it is, very specific to my own situation.
I was able to, look at it as a benevolent intervention into my life. But I know that's really not the case for many people. I don't wanna put it out there as though we should all be grateful for something like a cancer diagnosis. 'cause I, I, in no way WW would suggest that, but for me, there were many elements of it that I [00:05:00] felt were crucial to helping me come to terms with what needed to change in my life.
And in many ways I was grateful for that and continue to be, But I just wanna hold that in a certain way because I don't want to suggest that anyone should ever strive to feel grateful for such a scary diagnosis So it really is just unique to my own situation and how I experienced it.
I'm only very newly out of it, I was told that I am cancer free, less than a month ago. I found out on March 17th and it's April 14th, today, I found out on March 17th, which was St. Patrick's Day, that I am cancer free.
So I'm still very new, I was diagnosed with stage one non-Hodgkin's lymphoma back in November of 2024. I had to go through chemotherapy which we'll talk more about. that's really what the diagnosis was. But I see the illness as starting quite a long time before the diagnosis
You know, there's been so many elements to this journey when I look at it, that [00:06:00] build up to that point of actually getting cancer. for many years, I did have some autoimmune conditions. They were never severe enough that they really affected my life. I knew that I had some kind of immune system dysfunction, but it was never to the point where it was severely impacting me that I couldn't just carry on with my life, and keep going the way I was going.
for nearly 20 years I've had psoriasis, which is a skin condition, autoimmune skin condition. but because it was quite mild and never really got out of hand, it didn't really affect my life. So, so I kind of was like, okay, yeah, I know I have autoimmune, but you know, it wasn't that big call to really change my life in a deep way.
When I had my first daughter when I was 25, I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis an autoimmune condition affecting the thyroid. I'm 28 now, so I've had that for over a decade. But even though I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's, [00:07:00] it never got to the point where it was severe enough that I needed to make big changes in my life.
I was never put on medication for it. my thyroid numbers generally were always within range other than the Hashimoto's antibodies. I never experienced, Any noticeable symptoms from it. It was just one of those things that was running in the background that I knew about, but didn't really feel, too worried about.
but now I look at it and I'm like, well, all of that did kind of lay the foundation for a body that was kind of going awry, for many years I have been really interested in pursuing a healthy lifestyle. this is why it was such a shock for me when I was diagnosed with cancer.
I was 38 when I was diagnosed. I feel like I've always been really healthy. I've always been interested in eating really well. I always try to eat organic. I've been on the paleo diet on and off for a long time, I get lots of exercise. I don't drink or smoke
to have been hit with a cancer diagnosis at a young [00:08:00] age with no history of cancer in my immediate family it was just so shocking. It was unbelievable because I felt like I've been doing everything right. I can count at least four people off the top of my head that when they found out I had cancer, people close to me were just in shock.
'cause they said, you've always been the healthy one. You know, how has this happened? and so, I attribute the fact that I got cancer to just the fact that I was really living a very stressful lifestyle for quite a long time. despite all the nutritional. Pieces that I was trying to get right and all the exercise and the sleep and all of that.
at the end of the day, the way my nervous system was trying to cope with my life, which I'll talk more about, I think that was really what opened the door for me to get so ill so quickly. there's a lot of elements to how that happened at the time. I do think the autoimmunity is really key.
because I had the [00:09:00] Hashimoto's, I, think that the Hashimoto's was linked to the lymphoma It's actually very rare for Hashimoto's to result in lymphoma or thyroid cancer. as far as I understand it, it's very rare.
I was told that the fact that I had the lymphoma actually developed on the left lobe of my thyroid, and it was misdiagnosed as autoimmune for several months because of that, because it's so rare. And I was told it only, it's like two in a million chance to have that happen. Wow. So I definitely don't wanna frighten anybody that has Hashimoto's into thinking it's gonna develop into a cancer, because it's very rare.
but that is what happened. Yeah. So I was dealing with this autoimmunity and I also want to talk a little bit about some other things that led up to this as well. I have three children. I'm a mother of three.
They're still quite young. at the time of this recording, they're 13 and under. although I do have a partner, I'm single parenting them 'cause I'm no longer with their father. So I've been [00:10:00] single parenting for over two years now.
As I said, I'm just out of this journey and it's still like the pieces are still kind of coalescing into some kind of coherence. I think what's really important to my story is actually, connection to nature and to the land. So I think I'll start there
I grew up in England, in East Anglia. I moved to Canada with my family just before I turned 20 in 2005. I moved to the west coast of Canada, Vancouver and, Vancouver Island is really where I spent most of my time. I really fell in love with that part of the world.
as soon as I moved there, my soul really responded to that landscape. anybody that's been to the Pacific Northwest might have had a similar experience. I know it's not for everybody because it rains a lot, but for me, coming from England, that wasn't anything out of the ordinary.
the landscape there is just so magnificent. It's so beautiful. the Pacific Ocean the [00:11:00] mountains the temperate rainforest. the trees laden with moss the mist the fog the ravens the bear the salmon, it's just the most
Incredible ecosystem, and I just felt so aligned with being there. I loved it so much. I was so happy there, and I really had felt I'd found my place. I felt so lucky to have been able to move there from England. It's not an easy process to immigrate to a different country, and I was fortunate to have been able to do that.
I had a family connection to Canada, so we were able to immigrate in a fairly smooth way, which I know is not the case for many people. So I was very grateful for that. there I was living my life and, loving it there. I went to the University of Victoria.
I did environmental studies and women's studies and then I met the father of my children. he was from Ontario, which is where I am now. and he felt the same way. About Ontario as I did about bc he always wanted to move back. after our second [00:12:00] child, I could tell it was really upsetting him to not be able to be in Ontario and be with his family.
And so I made the decision that I would give it a go and move, really far across the country so that he could spend some time with his family and so that our kids could get to know his side of the family. it's nearly 10 years on since we made that move, but I knew pretty quickly after that decision that it had been a really big mistake for me.
Because, I didn't feel like Ontario was the right fit for me. I didn't have any connection here. I didn't know anybody, other than him. It was very far away from my family. I was raising two young children. I was suddenly in a completely different part of the world and I'd already immigrated from England.
So it was doing these huge moves, over and over again that it was just a bit too much. and I just missed the West Coast and my family deeply, and I still do. it's kind of this wound that I've been carrying for a long time. I feel like [00:13:00] it's a big part of why I got unwell as well because it's this, grief that I have been carrying and continue to carry constantly.
And it's been a hard thing to talk about because it doesn't seem like that big of an issue to be like, well, I just miss the rainforest. it's something that it's been really hard to explain to other people, but it's true. I've just. Wanted to be there so much.
And also my family and many of my good friends are there. And it's been really painful and I feel like it's held me back from being a happy person that can just get on with their life in many ways.
Because it's always been this thing that I've been carrying that this feeling's, like, I'm not meant to be here. I'm not meant to be here. I feel like my nervous system has always been in this slightly fight or flight state because I've been feeling trapped, like I can't get out.
once we moved here, my ex did not want to go back and, didn't really want to consider moving back. so the only way I could have actually gone back would've been to leave my [00:14:00] children because, the law is that you can't move away with your children without the consent of their other.
Caregiver. so obviously I was never going to leave my children, so I just ended up staying, and I've been here nearly 10 years since, two years ago we separated and it was largely because of that issue we were a bit of a personality mismatch anyway, but that was the really big issue we just couldn't reconcile that and it was just this big crevice in our relationship that we couldn't get past.
so I moved out, and I did quite soon after that, meet my partner, who I'm with now, who is a really incredible very supportive, wonderful person. we have really similar attachment style, so it works really well. I've really come to understand how important that is, for me.
because I moved out on my own and started, being a single parent to three, I had to start working full time. I went into my profession that I'd been trained in, which is social work. I think this is where things [00:15:00] started to go downhill a little bit. Because although I love that field, I will always love that field, of social work.
I think it's so important and so necessary. especially the world we live in today. But the work itself, if you're doing it 40 plus hours a week, day in, day out, it's very grueling and it really takes a toll. for the first year I was working in a domestic violence shelter, and I was the frontline staff there.
and again, I absolutely loved that. I felt like a real, a really natural fit for that position. But it was. so overwhelming. We were dealing with crisis after crisis, the particular role that I was in, I was the intake counselor. So I was there when the first crisis call came in.
My position was to be the first person at the door when the, when, when the women in their children, if they have children arrive, sometimes they're escorted by police. there's often paramedics involved. we are really there at that, that moment when a woman was, was fleeing [00:16:00] abuse, like in that moment and dealing with the, the direct aftermath of that with, with the women and her and, and children, if there, if there were children.
and yeah, it was, I mean, you can imagine, right? You're seeing and dealing with all kinds of things. We're working regularly with child and family services, with the police, with, with paramedics, medics, and. Again, I felt like a real fit for that role. I absolutely loved doing that work.
But you can imagine over time how much that takes a toll. and my contract there came to an end in some ways I was really sad to have left that position, but in other ways I really needed to as well because it was such heavy work. I was also working alternate, weeks where some weeks I'd be working in the day and some weeks at night.
So my circadian rhythm was way off. Yeah, when it came to an end, I really felt like I'd just come out of an ordeal, you know, like a really big ordeal. It was just like, oh my goodness, what just happened? This nearly year of my life, spent 40 [00:17:00] hours a week in the shelter and then coming home to single handedly care for my children.
it was just wild and doing it with no support, all my family are in bc. I have some really great friends here, but they all have their own lives too, so it's not like I'm having help cooking my kids dinner or doing bedtimes very often. and it is just absolutely exhausting.
And I really, yeah, when I came out of that, just like, wow, my nervous system took a hit. It was just insane. Like when I think about it now, I don't know how I held it together. it was just such a rollercoaster. I had such an amazing team that I worked with and it was a really great place.
But then, but then you're just dealing, it was a lot of vicarious trauma, I think. Yeah. yeah. And then, and then after that I started working as an addiction therapist, which was much less, crisis management, but still pretty heavy, right? Because you're dealing with people that have really difficult challenges in their lives and doing their best to make [00:18:00] changes.
and this is what we are dealing with all day, when I was working for that company, amazing company, amazing team that I worked with. but that kind of work starts to take its toll. And then on top of that, I was also due to start my masters of counseling, which I would've been starting this month.
Wow. As we're talking now, if I had gone ahead with it Which I really wanted to do, I wanted to have that title. I was very ambitious and I really wanted to go far in that career because it's so meaningful to me and it's so necessary it just felt like work that's so needed in the world.
So, alongside all of the work I was doing, I was also, doing psychology upgrades for the master's program. So I'm also doing these university courses while working full time, while single parenting. and, yeah. I look back at it and I'm like, well, obviously something was gonna have to give because
It was just too much. but at the time I kind of felt like, well, this is normal. I should be able to handle this. and that was really, I look at it now and that was kind of [00:19:00] the thread of what was carrying me through that was like, this is normal. I should be able to handle this.
because I was so busy, I think this is relevant especially as women, especially mothers. if you're taking on so much, it's easy to start neglecting your body. I really look back and think I was pretty well-nourished 'cause I just wasn't eating enough.
There were many days where I'd just barely eat anything 'cause I didn't have time. I had quite strict ideas of what was good to eat and what wasn't if I didn't have time to make a healthy meal from scratch, which I never did, then I just would often not eat.
I would still make sure my kids got food on the table and maybe pick up some of the scraps of their food. I can't believe how many days I really went without eating very much because I was just so busy. There just wasn't time. I think that was part of what played into what happened too, is that I'd probably become pretty malnourished towards the end there.
I think all of those elements were at play. What happened with the cancer diagnosis? I first [00:20:00] noticed, a lump appear on my thyroid right at the end of July of 2024. at the time I didn't think too much of it. I went to my doctor and he felt around and he was like, it doesn't feel like anything serious, but we'll get you in for an ultrasound.
And a few other things happened around that time. my dad had a heart attack. it's actually his birthday today, April 14th. Oh, happy birthday. Yes. He's doing very well. but he lives in BC and it was a really scary time.
I'm very close to my family and my dad To have him have such a serious thing happen when I'm so far away was really, really, really difficult. 'cause here it takes, it's a five hour plane ride for me to get out there. it really triggered me into this feeling of anger and grief of not being on the West Coast when something like this happens.
and having felt so, feeling like I'd had no choice around that. So I did fly out and I was with him for a week to [00:21:00] try and take care of him. luckily he got better. he's in good health, so he is doing well. thank goodness for that. but it was very stressful.
and also around that time, I ended up having a pretty extreme conflict with the father of my kids, which, at the time when it happened, I felt really intimidated by it and scared. I think that interaction had really impacted, my immune system because I, perceived that situation as very unsettling and difficult to the point where I was really worried about it and was still thinking about it weeks after.
I had also been concerned about my kids during that interaction and their wellbeing. speaking mother to mother, it's very difficult when you feel like your kids' wellbeing is in question. all of those things had kind of happened at the same time.
And it was around that time that this lump started to really grow to the point where it was protruding out of my neck I was like, There's something really wrong. I had an ultrasound done [00:22:00] and they said it looked like a thyroid nodule, which I was told is very common.
in women thyroid nodules are common occurrences. I'd actually had one years before, but it had been much smaller and more minor and had gone away on its own. they kind of attributed it to Hashimoto's and they were like, it's probably just a flower of Hashimoto's that's caused this oversized nodule.
I had a biopsy done and it came back as inconclusive. for a few months I went on thinking it was autoimmune, like nothing was really done about it. the endocrinologist I'd been seeing suggested that if it didn't go away, I would just have the, left lobe of the thyroid surgically removed, which I had not wanted.
I was like, well, if it's autoimmune, I wanna try and treat it with diets. So I was seeing a naturopath, I was seeing a Chinese medicine practitioner. but nothing was changing, because it wasn't autoimmune, because it was cancer. Nobody knew. I was referred to a surgeon and I went along 'cause I was like, well, I don't wanna have it surgically removed, but I'll go and talk to him because I'd like to get more information on what's happening.
[00:23:00] And the surgeon was really the one that I'm very, very grateful to him. he was the one that picked up on this. he said, I'm not gonna do surgery on it until we have a better idea of what it is. He said, I'm not gonna go in there and open it up if we don't really know what it is. So he ordered a second biopsy, which was a bit more of an invasive one, but good to have had it done.
and that came back, as lymphoma. the way I found out was actually quite horrifying. so before I'd had the results of the biopsy, I had had a CT scan and the surgeon had called me. I was picking up my 7-year-old from school. I was in the school parking lot, walking my 7-year-old, outta school.
I was like carrying her backpack. I was chatting to her about her day the phone rang and it was the surgeon. he said, well, I've got your CT results back. I was like, oh, okay. he said, to me it looks like lymphoma. I was like, what? I couldn't even believe it.
I was like, how could somebody be telling me this over the phone? he didn't even say do you need any support right now? Do you need [00:24:00] to sit down and so I remember it was an autumn day and I was walking.
Back with my daughter and just like, like all the blood, it felt like just drained because I, because I didn't even really know anything about lymphoma. I said to him, isn't lymphoma cancer? he was like, yeah, it is. But he said all things considered, it is not that bad of a diagnosis.
he said, you'll probably just need chemotherapy. from his perspective, I think he was thinking, okay, lymphoma is a fairly treatable cancer. but for me, I don't know anything about that. I don't know anything about cancer. and so it was really shocking, at that point we hadn't had the biopsy results back, so it wasn't confirmed.
So he was basically saying, it looks like lymphoma, but we'll confirm when we get the biopsy results back. I was in a state of shock, obviously. the lump at that point was really quite big. It was, It, it was affecting my voice. It was affecting my ability to swallow. And, and this was another thing that he told me during that phone conversation, that the [00:25:00] lymphoma or what looked to him like lymphoma had actually started wrapping around my carotid artery.
I was thinking, well, what does that mean? Like, does that mean it's squeezing off the artery? Does that mean, am I gonna have brain down? And he said, right now it looks fine. it's got normal flow. he said he wasn't really worried about that.
but you can imagine getting that kind of news, when you've got no one around, like it was just me and the kids. I don't even really know how I got through the rest of that day. I think that day was the first day I ever took Ativan. Yeah. Good day for, yeah, because I had some in my cupboard that my doctor prescribed earlier
'cause I'd been really worried about this and I'd been going to see my doctor a lot. So I'd had this Ativan in my cupboard and that was the first day that I took it and the first day in my life that I ever taken that and, and it helped and I was able to get to sleep that night somehow. but I flew out to BC almost the next day [00:26:00] to just go and be with my family because I knew that when I got the results of that biopsy, I did not wanna be on my own.
Yeah. So I flew out with my partner. it was his birthday week. So We, went to Vancouver, stayed with my parents, and this is the other way that I found out it was cancer, for all of my results, I had this online portal that I could check.
So I've had that for a long time. For blood work or, any kind of test, I can log into this account in my local area for the healthcare system I knew the biopsy results were gonna come up on that, but I was so terrified to check it myself.
But I had this thing where I was like, I want to know, but I don't wanna know. I want to know, but I don't wanna know. And my endocrinologist was away on vacation, so he wasn't gonna call me anytime soon. so I knew the only way I was gonna find out In any immediate fashion would be if I checked those results myself.
it was the Friday morning of that week where I woke up really early and just had this feeling that today was the day I was gonna find out. until that point I'd still been hoping it would just be autoimmune. It would [00:27:00] still be Hashimoto's. Even though the surgeon had told me it was likely to be lymphoma, I still had this feeling like maybe it's not, maybe I can't have cancer.
I'm 38, I have three children, I'm really healthy. Like it can't actually be cancer. but I had this feeling that morning when I woke up so I logged into the account. Sorry, I will be emotional 'cause it's still new Of
Dr. Erin Hayford: course.
Robyn Watt: And the results were in and they were in red, which I know
means. Bad news So I actually ended up getting my stepdad, who I was staying with to look at it 'cause I couldn't I got him out of bed and he opened up the results that's how I found out I had cancer. It was my stepdad.
He just read it off the computer screen and said, it's aggressive. diffuse B-cell, non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. Wow. even that moment of getting that diagnosis is very complex for me because getting that diagnosis without a healthcare provider there to really explain what that meant [00:28:00] was, yeah, it shouldn't be done like that
Because, it said aggressive, I'm like, well, aggressive doesn't sound very good. non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, I have no idea what that is. I didn't know anything about cancer or lymphoma before then. I've never known anybody who's had that or, or had any contact with it. it was a very difficult moment and I was devastated because, I didn't know what it meant.
when you don't have the context from a healthcare professional to explain that kind of a diagnosis, your mind's just spinning I'm like, I have three children. what does this mean? how did they treat this? What's the prognosis?
it was just horrendous and I wasn't able to speak to a doctor 'cause it was a Friday and I don't think I even spoke to a doctor about it for several days. I'm trying to remember. It's a little bit hazy, but I didn't really get the full context of what it was.
But I will say that in that moment when my stepdad was reading that out to me, I was [00:29:00] absolutely devastated and terrified. But in that moment, I also had this moment of clarity where it felt like a light was shone where, I got it.
It was like, I know what this is. I know why this is here. I know what it's coming to do. This is an intervention in a life that has become completely unsustainable. it was like this flash of understanding or this insight into my life,
You thought you could handle everything, but a human body can't do all of those things that you were doing. It's not sustainable. You could do it for some time, but you can't keep on doing that. this light bulb was this insight. Like, no, this is where it stops. This is your permission slip to turn it around, do something completely different.
You've got to stop. And it was so clear that it felt like, and this is why I wanted to preface the whole thing by saying, this is my [00:30:00] experience and I would never expect anyone else with such a diagnosis to feel this way. But it felt like a hand that was reaching down to guide me.
It was like, okay, we're gonna get you out of this now. and I knew that I wasn't gonna be. Someone that was fighting cancer or like a cancer warrior, I knew it wasn't a fight against the cancer. from the very moment I heard that diagnosis, I knew that I was gonna be fighting alongside it to come back to myself.
It was this very clear moment of feeling like, oh no, this is when, I start to come back to myself. This is when I start to really love myself and give my body what it needs, which I have not been doing for years. it was a very intense moment.
Like a message from the heavens. I had a very strong inner knowing that I was gonna be okay. I was like, I'm gonna get through this and I'm gonna be okay and I'm gonna do what it tells me. I'm gonna learn from it. it's really easy for me to say that now, sitting on the other side of [00:31:00] it.
But that is how it was in that moment. And I knew there was gonna be a lot to learn from this and that it was gonna require a lot from me to heed what it was giving me. but there I was like, I don't have a choice now. Like my body is saying, now's the time whatever plans you had, nope.
This is it. and it was a really incredible moment. Yeah. It was a really incredible moment. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Erin Hayford: That's incredible. I think it speaks to your orientation and worldview and connection to self to be able to have that. Moment of clarity, like you said, it's an intervention depending on your beliefs,
there can be that moment of clarity, right? this is an invitation, an initiation. Like you said, you have no choice yeah. Powerful. Yes.
Robyn Watt: And yeah, it was really like my body speaking to me and saying everything that you think is normal, like working all the [00:32:00] time, single parenting, doing everything all the time.
That's actually not that you, you can't do that. Your body isn't fit for life on earth if you're doing that. If you want to be fit for life on earth, you need to tend to the body. I kind of realized I hadn't been doing that. I thought I could go on without eating properly, rushing around being stressed all the time, just trying to work all the time.
I was like, why? You know, that's normal, isn't it? That's normal, but it's not normal. and it was a very clear message that my body was like, we stop this now. This is where this ends. So it was, funny because I was working as a therapist, so all day long I'm talking to people about self-care.
I'm talking about work and life balance and getting your own needs met and setting boundaries. that's what I'm talking to people about all day long. And then, what am I doing in my own life? not the opposite. So I, it kind of, you know this, and I'm looking at it, I'm like, I can't [00:33:00] believe that I was living in that double think for so long.
But we are told that that's normal and we are told that we're supposed to be able to handle everything and I really had bought into that. it was a moment where I knew everything had to change. I came back to Ontario and then there's this whole period of figuring out where you're gonna go for treatment.
getting more results, more tests. As soon as that diagnosis came in, It was like all hands on deck. It was like, I need to find out exactly what we're dealing with here. I, I had to have a bone marrow biopsy. I had to have a spinal, spinal fluid, biopsy, well not a biopsy, but where they took the spinal fluid.
So like a spinal attack? Spinal, yeah. Yeah. the bone marrow biopsy was probably the most unpleasant procedure. I had to have a PICC line inserted in my arm for chemotherapy because there was a question at the beginning of whether I had, a certain type of mutation that was associated with this type of cancer.
I do wanna talk about that more too, because that [00:34:00] was a really difficult situation. And leads into some other areas that I wanted to talk about. But essentially what I was told was I'm gonna need four rounds of chemotherapy. for anyone that is interested or knows about this, the chemotherapy I had is called R chop.
And then after that they would do a PET scan and if there was any cancer left, then I would have radiation. I was scheduled for my first chemotherapy on December 18th, right before Christmas.
I had an incredible oncologist. I got transferred to a hospital a bit further out of where I live because my hospital was full for cancer. And, but I'm grateful that that happened. 'cause where I ended up was just incredible. I went to a hospital in a city called Barry in Ontario.
And that hospital, I can't say enough good things. Every single person that worked there was so kind and understanding and always had time for however many questions you had, just incredible people. And my oncologist I felt very safe with him. And I [00:35:00] think that's a big part of my journey as well, is that I felt very safe with him.
He was very careful. He was very thorough. He was very kind. He had all the time in the day for me and yeah, just very grateful that he ended up being my oncologist. So, initially what happened is that they were testing for these mutations and there were three mutations they were testing for, and I came back initially as positive for one of them, and then the other two took longer to find out about
So I didn't find out until after my first chemotherapy, what my full diagnosis was which is really interesting, I didn't know this about cancer, but there's so many, details about the type of cancer that you, that you have.
Like there, there's so many tests that they can do and it's great because then they can target the treatment. But, but you're waiting so it was interesting to me that I didn't know my full diagnosis until almost halfway through the treatment, the thing with that though is that the mutations, if they had been [00:36:00] present, would've meant a much worse prognosis.
much lower survival rates would've required a much harsher chemotherapy regimen. just before Christmas, I'd been told, I had one of the mutations and they were waiting to hear back about the other two. my oncologist called me and said, I'm so sorry to tell you this, but one of them's come back positive.
he said, I really didn't wanna have to make this phone call to you. this only happens in about 5% of people. he said, I couldn't believe it actually when I got the results this morning, he called me right away. He was like, you know, I was really shocked.
I didn't wanna make this phone call, but yeah. there was another moment of feeling absolutely devastated because up until that point I'd been just trying to process this diagnosis and being like, well, okay, lymphomas are generally pretty easy to treat and it's at stage one, you know, I caught it at stage one, I'd been thinking like, I'm gonna be okay.
I'm young, I can take this. But then when this mutation thing happened, it started to look like, oh, okay, maybe I won't get through [00:37:00] it. that was a really hard few weeks.
Yeah. And I remember when I went to meet with him to get those results, I was just so scared And I remember going into the room to meet with him, to find out those results. And I felt like, I felt like there was like two parallel universes opening up for me.
Like one where, one where I was gonna be okay and one where I wasn't. it really felt like this huge threshold moment. and he told me, you don't have those other mutations. the mutation that I did have on its own was not implicated in any worse outcomes.
And the relief of that was Immense. Like it was January 7th and I feel like that's my second birthday when he told me that I had the good kind and that I could stay on the less severe form of chemotherapy, it was [00:38:00] such a relief. I was able to go home and tell my kids that I was gonna be okay.
it was A huge moment. I did the four rounds of chemotherapy chemotherapy. is, awful. You feel terrible. I had a lot of bone pain. this is something else to talk about the nature of the cancer.
So lymphoma is, a cancer of the immune system. it's a blood cancer and it's the immune system. this is something I'd really like to talk about more because for me that's very symbolic, I've been looking at this whole journey at, different levels like, the actual physical thing that's happening.
But then this is also the deeper meaning to me of, of, of, of how all this makes sense in my life. the fact that it was an immune system, cancer, just clicked for me, because my immune system has been on high alert for so long in trying to protect me from everything in my life,
Like from working too much, from going through this situation with my ex for feeling trapped that I can't move back to be with my family. it's [00:39:00] like I've been having to protect and defend myself for years, and it's just malfunctioned. It's trying to fight this threat that is not tangible. it's just gone awry because it's been trying to fight for so long and it can't win, so it's just malfunction.
That's what it sounded like to me, or how it made sense to me. And then the fact that it had come up in this very rare. Location of the thyroid. it's very unusual for a lymphoma to grow on the thyroid. Like I think I said earlier, I was told it's only two in a million chance of that happening.
and of course the thyroid is the center of the voice where we speak our truth, where we are heard, where we feel like we're really heard or received in the world. And again, I hadn't felt like I'd had that power to be able to speak and be heard and be taken seriously for so long. I just hadn't, 'cause I'd really felt trapped [00:40:00] in my life in so many ways for so long.
And so to have this immune system malfunction in my throat center, it was just so symbolic to me Of how my life had got to that point. it just was like, can we make it any more obvious for you? and no, it's like, I get it, I get it, and it had to be something serious enough that I would take notice of it.
the autoimmune conditions weren't really getting my attention. It had to be something where it was like, Nope, you gotta do something, you don't have a choice. And I, love my body for that, for just making it so clear to me. again, I don't wanna suggest that anyone else would have to try and make sense of an illness in that way.
for me, all the pieces lined up. So I, I went through the chemotherapy. There was a couple of moments during that whole process where, where I was [00:41:00] very unwell to the point where I was actually concerned that I would die. The first one I told you about was with the mutations.
the second time my immune system counts had gotten so low. My neutrophils had gotten so low from chemotherapy at one point, and I contracted Covid, very badly. it was that week between Christmas and New Year. I was hospitalized.
my immune system was so low that it was basically non-existent. I think my counts were at like 0.01. I had covid. I was hospitalized for about three days. I was in a wing of the hospital that wasn't meant for long-term patients.
I was kind of on this hard bed. I didn't even have a pillow for most of that, because I got rushed in there. it was really wild. They had to do a lot of tests to see what it was. Came back positive for Covid.
And then I was on IV antibiotics for about 72 hours. I was very, very sick. very high fever. at that point the doctors were, I did have a doctor tell me [00:42:00] that my immune system was so low that I was at risk of being attacked by just a normal bacteria in my body, like a gut bacteria or something.
And, yeah, not even the covid. So, And, and there was definitely some moments when I was there where I was like, ah, I might not actually get outta this hospital. And I think so, and that's a really awful thing about cancer treatment. The cancer treatment is, so bad. I wish they had, better treatments.
it saved my life and I would do it again, but I just wish for a world where people would never have to have chemotherapy. just not having an immune system is terrifying. it's absolutely terrifying, you know? And I'm someone that really loves, getting dirty, you know?
I love being out in nature and playing in the dirt and taking my kids to jump in the mud I'm not someone that was really used to having to be completely sanitized at all times it was a whole thing, but again, it saved my life. So, yeah. I'm not complaining, but it's [00:43:00] scary and there were those two moments where I felt close to death.
So it was definitely when I was in the hospital with Covid, and then also when I was waiting for the results of those mutations. during those times is really when I feel like I actually learned the most from this disease. Because when I actually thought, yeah, I might die soon. it brought me into this profound reverence for life.
I think it's something that's hard to describe. but I came into this very deep love of myself my body and my life, having had this opportunity to experience consciousness on planet Earth, it's so precious to be alive and have an experience of consciousness.
That's what kept coming to me. Like, how amazing, even if I just got 38 years of this, how beautiful has it been, to experience the love of my friends, my family, my community, my children to have been to some of these beautiful places on the [00:44:00] earth, The ocean the forest the mountains, and how beautiful is that?
And how lucky have I been to have that? throughout that whole time I was just praying any more of this that I could have, even if I just get a few more weeks or a few more months I would just be so grateful because I love it here so much. I just love it here.
And it's, something I really needed to understand because I've been in an activist role for a long time. when I was at university, I was doing environmental studies and women's studies. I was really into the environmental movement and feminist theory.
then I worked as a social worker. for so long my life had been about focusing on everything that's wrong with the world, which is needed. There's a lot of systems of oppression and a lot of harm happening in the world all the time, and we need to be critical of that and, advocate and make [00:45:00] changes for all of that.
But I was so set in this way of looking at what's wrong with everything and why things need to change. in those moments when I thought I might lose everything, it was the opposite. It was just profound love and gratitude and I'm just so grateful for all of it.
I think that was the lesson I'm gonna do whatever I can to keep making my body. Fit for life on Earth. that's what my job is gonna be from now on, I'm going to take care of myself. I'm not going to agree to all these things that are crushing my soul and my body and my life anymore.
I'm gonna make sure I take really good care of myself so I can be here for as long as possible and be with my kids. towards the end of, chemotherapy, I started to have a, a, a, a pretty optimistic outlook.
I was like, I think I'm gonna be okay. The lump went down really [00:46:00] fast after the first chemotherapy, which was, incredible that it just kind of like disappeared. And so I was like, okay, it's definitely responding to treatment. And so I had the four sessions and then after the fourth one I really started to feel something in my neck again.
And I started to get really scared. I think I could really feel something there. I was almost certain that I was gonna need radiation. they had said, we'll do the PET scan at the end of the four rounds of chemo and if there's anything left we'll do radiation.
I was almost certain that it was gonna come back 'cause I could just feel something there. I was really depressed about it. I thought I was done with this. But I went in on March 17th and my oncologist. Told me, it's gone.
He was like, you know, we can't ever say a hundred percent for certain, but your PET scan results are excellent, it looks as far as we can see, the chemotherapy has taken care of all of it. what I would expect is that you can just kind of go on and just pick up your life.
Wow. I was Like, really? he said, yeah, you have to come back in a couple [00:47:00] of months and we'll do a checkup. according to a lot of other, tests or, measurements that they use, he told me I was very low risk for any recurrence, and it looks like it's gone and you're good to go.
And I was just overjoyed. I was there with my family and my partner. it was pure joy, you know? And it was St. Patrick's Day, so we were all wearing green. And the li the non-Hodgkin's lymphoma ribbon is, is bright green. And that was really symbolic to me too of, of life, you know, life goes on, life grows.
and it was spring and right before the spring equinox. so I said to him, what do I do now? how can I stop it from coming back? and he said, there's nothing that you did wrong. it's just random.
He said it's just random. He said, I didn't have any risk factors for it. I said, what would you recommend that I do? if you could give me your number one tip for not getting cancer again? he said he just kind of struggled and he was like, exercise.
He said, just make sure exercise. I was like, okay. It's like, I can do [00:48:00] that. anything else, would you recommend anything? he said, no, it was just random. Nothing you did wrong. It just happens sometimes. he said Just go back to your normal life.
Wow. Yeah. of course that's the last thing I'm gonna do is go back to my normal life. but it's just so interesting To go through that and see what the real scope of practice is for oncology, right? Because we have these amazing treatments that can save people's lives.
but then there's these whole other layers to it that they're not able to address at this point, or maybe never will. the fact that I knew I'd had these really intense stressors around the time where this lump formed, that's something that I know is true for me, but it's not something that would ever be addressed by my oncology team, you know?
Right.
Dr. Erin Hayford: Wow. I just wanna sit in the wake of this magic for moments. there's so much beauty in that. It contains the scope of the human experience that profound. [00:49:00] Love for life. And the other side of that,
coming so close to death. that whole experience in such a short period of time, you experienced the, the whole spectrum of what we can experience to be alive. And just the way you experienced it and articulated it is profound.
Thank you for sharing this with us and taking us on this journey. Andthis is me more in my therapeutic role, but I'm just wondering how are you feeling having said all of this and like share this story in this way because I know that you said this is the first time you're articulating it in such a way for anyone.
So I'm just wondering how you're feeling right now. Thank you.
Robyn Watt: Yeah, I feel like there's some space that's opened up. And I also, there's part of me that feels like, I'm sorry if it's a really garbled telling of that story or if it was all over the place because it is the first time I'm putting it all together in one telling of the story,
I hope it makes sense and comes across as a coherent thread, It did, but I do feel a lot of lightness. Thank you. And thanks [00:50:00] for providing the space for that.
Dr. Erin Hayford: Of
Robyn Watt: course, as well.
Dr. Erin Hayford: Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. No, it feels
Robyn Watt: good.
Dr. Erin Hayford: Good, good. Yeah. And it did come out completely cohesive, like 100%.
I never felt lost or confused, and I could follow where and why you were going to the places you were. yeah. And so, oh gosh, there's so many like, so many pieces into this story, and I feel like the most. I think the most profound thing because this, this podcast, I mean, as you know, it's all about that deeper reason we get sick and, the reasons we're given that we're sick.
I think they can be important and they can be validating and they can provide some explanation. but I think your story really highlights how there has to be something more because why would the body just do that? like, it just happens. It's random, like you did nothing.
and it's not that you did anything right. it's not like a punishment. I don't think of, we don't think of illness like that. I don't speak of it as that on this podcast, but I think that's the mentality I'm trying to move us away from as a culture and a society [00:51:00] because there is a reason think of that message from your oncologist of like, yeah, just get back to life
That's what illness is trying to get us away from. we go through this ordeal to be taken out of life. To have this moment where it's like, how you are living and what you are doing is not like you,
Make yourself fit for life on earth, because the message is the reason illness is coming up is because you're not fit for life on earth, or it's not conducive or it's not flow or right.
There's something that is just not working, not in alignment. that's their worldview, that's their scope. There was nothing in your history. You know, all the typical reasons people get cancer, were not present in your life, to me that's the most profound.
Proof, that illness has this more sacred reason, bodies don't just fail. They don't just decide let's attack ourselves and, form a tumor for no reason. at least not in the world that I live in.
Right. so I'm so curious, like when you sit with that kind of message, what has this looked like? I know it's only been a month, Since It ended. So obviously you're [00:52:00] still processing and, figuring out next steps, but how have things
Shifted for you? since everything has ended,
Robyn Watt: Thank you for the question I will respond to that, but I just also wanna just elaborate on, on the. Making my body fit for life on Earth because this is just my story.
having a body fit for life on Earth can look like a lot of different things. Like we don't have to be in peak health to be fit for life on earth. I don't want it to sound like I'm saying, I'm only worthy of life if I'm in optimal health
Yeah. what I mean for myself is that it was very clear that I'd been living in a very unsustainable way. Like I hadn't been tending to the basic systems of my body, like eating properly, like eating at all, right? having time in my life where I'm not just completely stressed all the time, things like that.
And so it really was just that specialized message for my situation. I'd gotten away from just. Basic needs of my body, like giving my body [00:53:00] the basic things that it needs to function.
Dr. Erin Hayford: Yes. No, and I That's a beautiful, like, said Yeah, yeah. Sorry, didn't mean to cut you off. No, I think that's a good, that is a very good clarification.
'cause I certainly agree with that. Like, we've seen people who smoke and, do all the bad things, live long, healthy lives. it's not that surface level stuff, right? for all intents and purposes, you were the healthy one, right?
Like you were the healthy person and I think we can just have really biased ideas of what that can mean and, you know, we can also lack that awareness of like, I think I'm healthy, but actually I'm quite stressed and my life is really busy. So I think it's more, it's not so much about certainly those things play a role if we're eating what we're eating.
All those things play a role, but I think it's more that deeper thing we're talking about that alignment with self. Right. When you said fit for life on earth, that's how I interpreted that phrase am I aligned with myself in that way that my body thrives and comes alive and, you know, feel safe and healthy and whatever that is.
Right? That's, my interpretation of that [00:54:00] meaning.
Robyn Watt: Yeah, exactly. That alignment with self. And, and it was just that message of like, I'd gotten so far away from that and my body was calling me back. It was, it was calling me back and many, and there was many times when I was just lying in bed for hours and I would just sit there and
Take that time to just feel my body, just like, feel the wonderment of having physical form, which was this vehicle for me in this lifetime to experience life. I would sit there and wiggle my toes or feel my fingernails and be like It's so incredible to have physical form,
and I'd forgotten that and neglected it. and now I'm back. I'm coming back. So that's really what it felt like. Yeah. No, thanks. Yeah, I just wanted to clarify that 'cause I don't want it to sound like I'm an ableist kind of. No. Yeah. Anyway. Did not come across as
Dr. Erin Hayford: I appreciate that.
Robyn Watt: How have things changed for me now? I've been lucky that I haven't had to return to work right away. I was able to go on ei, my oncologist signed me off for quite a while 'cause he's, you know, he said you need several months of recovery from chemo. he said it's about two months [00:55:00] of recovery for every month of chemo.
I'm on EI for a bit, which is nice 'cause I have the space to, to get up in the morning and actually make breakfast, one of the biggest things for me is that I'm eating breakfast these days, which I had not done for a long time. I'm going really slow. I'm not forcing myself to do anything that doesn't.
that I don't think I have energy for or that I don't really want to do. That's very new for me. Very new.
Dr. Erin Hayford: Hmm.
Robyn Watt: I can't remember ever doing that before spending a lot of time outdoors. at the end of my treatment, I moved house. My old house had flooded.
And my basement got wrecked. so I moved recently and where I live now, I live really close to the shores of Georgian Bay, on one of the Great Lakes here. And I can walk outta my door and just walk to the beach in about five minutes.
and then there's a huge forest behind the beach and I'm spending a lot of time out there just walking with my dog, several [00:56:00] hours a day, often just walking in nature. Which feels like all I want to do a lot of the time. and that's bringing me a lot of joy and peace. So I feel like it's really these very basic things of just eating and sleeping and being outdoors.
That's kind of all I have bandwidth for. And then on the weeks that I have my kids, I'm spending a lot of time with them. this is the first time I've done that because before I was always working or I was in school the other day I actually sat down and watched a full-length movie with my 7-year-old.
it occurred to me that I had not done that in a very long time. But it's because I finally have space and time. That I was able to sit with her and be there with her that was just such a beautiful thing. I really feel that's where I'm at right now. these very simple things.
It's like food and family and nature and sleep.
Dr. Erin Hayford: [00:57:00] Yeah.
Robyn Watt: Yeah.
Dr. Erin Hayford: Yeah,
Robyn Watt: I am also looking into doing a training for forest therapy, for forest bathing, and I feel that's just about my limit of what I'd be able to take on in the next little bit. I had a dream recently and my dreams have always like, been very, they always.
They always explain to me what's going on in my life or what my deeper feelings are, I've really been tracking my dreams for a long time and I had a dream recently that I was in a bookstore looking through the different sections I was in the Buddhist section and someone came up to me and said, what is it that you really want to do in your life now?
And I just said, inner peace. And that was it. That was the dream. it's funny 'cause it came in a dream and for me, there's so much truth in my dreams, they always point me towards what's going on. I woke up and I was like, yeah, that's it. That's what I want. I want inner peace.
That's what I wanna get to. and that's good enough. Like before, I wanted to get my master's degree. I wanted to do all of this. And those things are great, and I love that version of [00:58:00] me that wanted those things. And maybe one day I still will, but right now I just want to be present with my life and my body and my children and nature, and that's where I'm at.
Yeah.
Dr. Erin Hayford: Beautiful. I think that speaks strongly to this idea of what healing or health has to look like, where we just add more and more if we feel like we're lacking or need something, it's always this idea of what else can I add on?
Or what's the next thing? I really do feel like I'm kind of sitting with the same idea in my own life. I love how you have clarified many times, like, this is how it is for you. I'll say the same for myself, this is what I'm coming to in my own life it's really for me, feeling similar, like it's more about stripping away and just being present with what is, and being grateful for what is in this moment.
And I did this thing recently where I was sitting down and thinking about what are all the things that I'm striving for and that I want in my life? And I wrote 'em all out. when I looked at the list, it was like, I really do have all of those things. But in my mind it was in this different context or looked different
it was something I had to [00:59:00] strive for you could actually be. Doing all of that right now. So what's holding you back from doing those things of course, culturally, the reality of needing money to survive and the world we've created.
there are so many barriers to us, and there's no confusion in my mind as to why chronic illness is so rampant now, especially as the income gap here in the states is so insane. minimum wage is not enough to raise a family on.
You have to have like six jobs, you know? and so yeah, and I think as that gap has grown, illness has grown. And so there isn't the opportunity To do the things we need to do to survive, to be in alignment to actually just you know, like you said, your nervous system was in chronic fight or flight.
And I think that's true for like so many of us by no choice of our own, right? Like, that's just the way that the world is. And so I think I was having this conversation, I'd be curious to hear what your thoughts are with someone, about this very topic where, there's this idea of privilege and people who do get to take breaks and rest and make enough money and all that sort of thing.
And to me, it's about the folks who are [01:00:00] able to do that, like to do it, to embody it, and then to use that to find how to make that true for other people. we're not gonna change the world if we're all doing the nine to five grind and exhausted someone has to break the cycle.
I'm just, yeah. I'm curious how you think about that. 'cause obviously you are on leave, you know, because of your illness, which is another interesting sort of gift from the illness where it's like create a space for you. What are your thoughts on that in terms of that disparity that exists and how do we, I mean this is a big topic but how do we start to make that change so that everyone can have this different kind of life?
Robyn Watt: Yes. With such a important thing to focus on, right? Because I think that is what we're all struggling with. The reason I'd gotten into that state of living so unsustainably was 'cause it felt like, first of all I should be able to handle it. But then on the other hand, I didn't have a choice.
I couldn't just not work. I'm on my own with three kids. I couldn't go back and live with my family. 'cause I can't leave my children. I didn't really have a choice, and unfortunately I don't have a great answer for that. I [01:01:00] am really fortunate right now to have the financial stability to not have to work right away,
And also throughout my treatment, my family actually came from BC and stayed next door to me for three months to help me get to chemo, take care of my kids, help me when I was sick. there's no way I could have done any of that without them. They were just an incredible support. And so for people that don't have that kind of support and that aren't financially able to just decompress their lives, it's very, very difficult.
I really don't have a good answer because I think. We're fighting against systems that are so much bigger than us to try and solve that problem. trying to solve that kind of a problem at an individual level is, I don't see how it's possible 'cause it's these greatest structures and we can look at the political, economical climate that we're in today I'm in Canada, but we're watching what's happening in the states and just feeling like, dear God, right?
I think, the only way I could maybe try to answer that question is to [01:02:00] look back at myself at that time and think, well what could I tell myself back then now that I've been through this? and I think it's hard 'cause I love that person and I love how hard she was trying and I almost feel like.
It took something like this to make me stop being so go, go, go and like, I've gotta do this and I'm gonna do this. I, had to get really laid out in this way because I was so ambitious and driven and I kind of had to go through this on a very sematic level to actually embody I a a, a change in perspective and not be so go-go all the time.
But if I could look back, I would tell myself to cut out any of the things that were not necessary at that time. did I really need to be doing my master's degree right now? No, not really. I wanted to do it and in many ways is a good idea 'cause it would've got me, into a higher, income bracket.
Did I really need to be doing it [01:03:00] then? No, not really. I could have put it off. that would've given me a lot more space. It was really stressful thinking about doing these extra courses and how I'm gonna pay for it and work while doing it
I really didn't need to be doing that. I would've really taught myself to focus more on those basic needs, like, make sure you're eating, just take anything out of your day that's not necessary to focus on the things that will keep you well until you're at the point when life opens up a bit more.
Like maybe when the kids are a bit older Then focus on those other pieces of life, But right now just tend to the immediate needs. Because that's already at the upper limit of what I would've had energy and time for.
Yeah. But everyone's situation, everyone's gonna have their own makeup of what kind of supports they have or do not have in their life. The kind of finances they have access to all of that. And I really would've advised myself to be working much more within my means with all of those kinds of resources, which I [01:04:00] wasn't doing.
Yeah. And so, even though recognizing that it is a systemic issue, there's a few things I could have taken outta my life, to just taken that stress off, you know? but even so, who knows, right? Because It's still a lot.
Dr. Erin Hayford: So I think it is, like you said, a systemic issue. And to put it on the individual is unfair and not correct. it's not up to us as individuals to change. we're not responsible for what the system is ultimately creating. because we're operating under that system for now, it's looking at our own individual lives and questioning what can I do to get out of survival mode?
how can I step out of being in survival and go, go, go and fight or flight? I think we're all just in that energy all the time. it almost feels weird to step out of it like, not right, or, not what we're supposed to be doing. even in my own life, I don't have to work a ton.
I have a shorter work schedule, just because of the nature of my work, and yet in the moments where I wasn't working, I would be thinking about work constantly. I would have this guilt of like, I should be working so I'd be [01:05:00] on Instagram making posts while my kids are trying to get my attention
Be present to and with whatever it is we're doing. can we change and be present with whatever it is we're doing in the next moment. letting go of things and working through that guilt and those stories of like, I have to have this and I have to have this title and I have to be doing these things, right?
maybe you really do. Maybe that is truly what is aligned and feeling good and healthy and right for you in that moment. it is finding that individual balance and that individual way of showing up in the world that truly does feel good.
But I think it's really shining that, honest light on it and saying kind of like I did where it's like, I already have everything I want, so why do I feel like I have to keep going? Like, what is that energy that's pushing me to keep looking at the future versus to be here in my body now?
I wasn't truly happy, Because I feel like that future striving just. There's this constant feeling of dissatisfaction and like, you're not there yet and never arriving. I think that's fight or flight, constantly moving away from something or battling something
even if it's for a good reason, like getting a degree or making more money I think it's this shift that we all have to start to embody this different way of being in the world. [01:06:00] one of the things I was sitting with too is if we can learn how to do that as individuals, then we create space for if we have kids, for kids to know what that's like to feel okay, just, just existing, you know, like you don't have to constantly be striving.
You can just exist It's this ripple effect of removing that guilt or judgment. if culturally we all start to slow down and be more present, then that's what starts to feel normal to our collective nervous systems. Whereas if we're constantly in this rat race,
we're just trying to match the energy around us. our nervous systems influence those around us, So if our nervous system is going, yeah, then your nervous system is going. And so it does take on that level, the individual to start to shift and then those around us can start to shift.
So I think that's one way to, sit with it, but I wanted to point out some of the key things and then close with, this ceremony you mentioned. we'll get to that in a second. the big thing I pulled out of your story was just that feeling of being stuck,
Like not having a choice, That felt like the key. Stressor for your system. And it, that was sort of that going back [01:07:00] to that idea of like, how do I, like, how do I embody myself in a way that feels more true for me? I feel like that's key for so many precursor to illness stories, right?
There's this feeling of like, I have to be this person. I have to be this way. I don't have choice How are you in relationship with that dynamic now? in terms of feeling stuck, feeling like you don't have choices.
there's some reality to that in some ways, but I'm curious how has that shifted? And I know you're still sitting with a lot of this, but how does that show up for you now? Or how are you in relationship to that now?
Robyn Watt: my internet glitched a little bit and I didn't hear the full question.
That's okay. what I did hear was. Have I been able to make changes around feeling very stuck or trapped? Yep. That's it. Okay. Yes. the big thing for me hasn't really changed. I still don't have the freedom to move back to BC when I want or go back there, that hasn't really changed.
I'm still in Ontario. my children are still here. I can't get out of that situation probably until they're a lot [01:08:00] older. In many ways I've had to change my relationship to the problem because I can't physically do anything about it really. Like, I can go out for visits, you know, I have a bit more freedom right now where I can go and spend some time there on the weeks that I don't have my kids
But still I'm not gonna be doing that all the time 'cause that's really expensive. to just fly across the country. many times in a year, I've really had to, change my way of being with that issue because it's a big wound for me. It's a huge amount of grief that I carry with me all the time.
if I tap into it, it's overwhelming 'cause I miss it there so much and I want to be there so much. it's always there to some degree, but I'm trying to feed myself in different ways so I can hold that grief a little bit differently. I think spending time in nature for me is really critical.
Like getting those hours outdoors really helps me bring that peace and calm into my system. knowing that wherever I am, I can connect with nature, whether I'm in BC or [01:09:00] not. And that's very nourishing for me and very healing. I'm realizing it even more now.
It's like I'm hungry for it to be out in nature. if I miss a few days of it, I need to get out there. it's like that experience of thirst or hunger, I need to just get out into the woods or sit by the water. it helps me get through the time that I am here.
'cause I know one day it's gonna change. One day my kids will be older. I'll have that freedom again. I'll be able to get back there. So in the meantime, I'm just going to tend to myself and my life with as much nourishment as I can to make myself as strong and whole as I can for when that time comes.
and just to try and really embrace what I have while I'm here. I know, it's a thing to have a gratitude practice and all that, but it really does work. I'm really spending a lot more time now focusing on the support and the connections and the love and all [01:10:00] the good things that I do have in my life for the time that I'm gonna be here.
And I'm just trying to let that feed me as much as possible. it's really interesting 'cause to think like, well, that problem hasn't gone away and it's probably not gonna go away for a long time. So I have to meet it differently because. I don't wanna get sick again.
I don't wanna get to that point again. I have to acknowledge that I'm carrying a wound. I'm carrying a lot of grief for my children. Not being raised near my family, not being raised on the west coast, not having that life that I really wanted them to have. Missing out on these last few years of my parents being in good health
That, you know, all of that. it's a huge amount of grief and anger to be honest. 'cause I feel like I'm here involuntarily. but to be, well, I have to meet this wound within myself in a different way I think I'm just kind of learning what that looks like and so far, yeah, I think the nature connection is what's really working and having the time [01:11:00] for it.
'cause I've always had a connection to nature, but I was so busy before that. It was very rare for me to get out and spend hours at a time out in nature. But I think right now, that's a huge priority for me. I have to make time in my day for that now.
And I guess I'll learn more about that as it goes, but that's where I'm at right now.
Dr. Erin Hayford: I feel like we're gonna have to do a followup episode in like six months to a year and get an update as to how this has unfolded for you. that really speaks perfectly to what we were just talking about because it's almost like you being there is its own system of oppression
it's this circumstance that you can't change. And that is not good for you, But you have to learn how to operate within it. And I think. Changing our relationship to the problem. I feel like that's almost like key to what we were saying, and embracing what we have.
Finding those moments of like, you know, it's like that. is it what they say in Alcoholics Anonymous? accept what you cannot change. what is that saying? Yeah. and know the difference I can't think of it. People know what I'm talking about,
But I think that's it, right? if we are constantly in a struggle relationship and we're angry and [01:12:00] resentful, it's not about not feeling those feelings. It's about feeling them, acknowledging them, expressing them, letting them live and then also finding what else is there, right?
Because if we're only in that state I think a lot of us can have these intense emotions and experiences. and I think we get busy because. That's the only way, we feel like we can do anything about it. we get busy to move away from the problem or to keep our mind off of it or feel like we have some control over our circumstances by staying busy.
but when we slow down, it's uncomfortable because then all that anger is there and all that grief is there. And then we recognize this like shitty situation that we're in and. I think it's about trying to, learn how to exist within the confines that are, our life.
how do we not necessarily make peace with it, but how can we accept what we can't change? Okay. This is what it is. Accept that we can't change. Change what we can. Yeah. because then we can learn how to find that freedom in our body and live in alignment.
how can I live in alignment with myself in the context that I am kind of forced to be in, that I don't have control over how can I still be me, take care of myself, be [01:13:00] grateful for what I do have, find joy. I think that's the art of living because not everyone has circumstances that feel oppressive and unfair, but many of us do.
Right. the choice is like. Am I going to live or die? are we gonna live and thrive with what we've been given or are we going to let it kill us? that's the choice we always have and we have to figure out how we,
Live and thrive within the context we've been given. that's what I'm taking from what you just said.
Robyn Watt: Yeah. I think that's exactly it. you're right, because everything I was doing was to try and distance myself from this wound
It's like, well, if I just stay busy enough, if I just get my career going, if I just achieve all of this, Then I don't have to think about that. I don't have to be in that wounding all the time. I can feel like I'm doing something about it, in some way. but it just pushed me way out of my own body, away from myself and having presence with that and just being like, yeah, this is this.
I do experience it as a wound. it's a grief. it's something I'm carrying with me and, it's part of who I [01:14:00] am. we're all gonna have something to work with in life like that. But I think coming back to myself and like you were saying, just having that presence with myself and not even trying to fight it or change it.
Being like, yeah, I'm carrying this and I'm gonna do all the good things for myself too, and I'm just gonna get going, you know, keep going with it and be there for my kids and then one day it will change 'cause life. Life changes. It doesn't stay the same. You know, I've really learned that things come along that you couldn't even predict or expect and change
Dr. Erin Hayford: I mean, that was the beautiful thing of your story, right? Was just like, if I can even have another week of life, even if it's in Ontario, like wherever it is, right? Like to be in a body and to be here, you know? how can we Embrace that for what it is because there's so much to be grateful for in what we have
one of the things you had said at the beginning was speaking about grief there was a ceremony that you did around your hair loss. For those who are just listening, you won't see, but she doesn't have hair right now.
While it grows back, is it starting to [01:15:00] grow back or what does that even look like?
Robyn Watt: it is growing back a little bit. Like it's coming back a little bit. Kind of amazing coming back. Yeah. So you had
Dr. Erin Hayford: a ceremony to release your hair, I guess, and I'd love for you to share this with us.
We had talked about how for folks who have cancer, have had cancer, have lost their hair, know what it's like to go through that, experience, but also how there's this lack of ceremony with illness and the things we have to say goodbye to or make peace with
so I'll turn it over to you. I'd love to hear the story around this and what this looked like for you. Thank you.
Robyn Watt: Yeah, I did really wanna share this 'cause I feel like ritual and ceremony are really profound ways that we can, integrate these kinds of experiences. And for me, having this very visceral, this piece, like the actual hair, I can hold and touch was very symbolic.
the hair loss for me was actually really upsetting and it's one of those things that I feel like I shouldn't have been that upset about because it's such a minor thing in relation to the bigger picture that my life was saved, that I was able to have [01:16:00] this medicine that saved my life.
And this was just a minimal side effect that isn't painful and it's gonna grow back. but it was really upsetting for me to lose my hair. I had really long hair before and I've always had quite thick, long hair. it's something I've always really liked about myself
you know that we always have like parts of us. I were like, I like that, or I don't like that. Well, I, my hair, I really liked my hair. when it started coming out, it's, it's such a, it's such an upsetting experience. 'cause it just starts to just like, come out in clumps.
Like it just with chemotherapy. you run a hair rush through it and it's just. Coming out, like huge pieces of it, and you wake up in the morning, it's all over your pillow and it's very disconcerting to just have all your hair come off your head like that. it was also something that was really disturbing to my kids as well.
I think it's also in our society, it's so much associated with cancer. Like, you look sick if you don't have hair and you're a woman, So, it felt [01:17:00] very, not stigmatizing, but like it's a symbol of being like, I am sick. right. Yeah. So I knew when all my hair started coming out that this was a really big deal for me.
And so I kept it all in a bag. I knew I wanted to do some kind of ritual or ceremony with it. the other thing about my hair, Is because it had been quite long at the time. it really felt to me that I'd stored a lot of these experiences over the past few years in my hair.
There's been a lot that's happened over the last decade. there's been some traumatic events, a lot of grief like I've spoken about and I really felt like it was all being held in my hair in this kind of time capsule almost.
'cause you know, the hair that was down near my waist, that was from a few years ago. Right. So it's all this stuff that's been happening in my life. I felt like it had kind of been stored as memory in my hair. And the fact that it all just comes off when you have cancer, I feel is [01:18:00] almost kind of appropriate for the fact that you're shedding your skin, you're shedding your hair, and you're gonna come out as something completely different
If you get cancer, it changes you, you're not the same person again after you've had cancer. And it's really akin to the snake shedding its skin we're in the year of the snake. so it was very appropriate. Yeah. so all of that I feel is very potent to work with, with this, with this.
So I, I had my final all clear on March 17th, and a few days later it was the spring equinox. for me, that seemed very appropriate to do the ceremony because it's the turning point of the year and it's that point of balance of the light and the dark, you know, and we're coming into the, the light pod of the year.
So it really lined up very neatly for all of that. So I took my hair to the beach near where I live It was a really incredible moment because we were at that point of the year where the weather is going haywire. it had been snowing that morning, but by the time I got [01:19:00] to the beach, it was sunny and it had rained a little bit, for about two minutes there was this very vivid rainbow that came up over the lake.
Wow. if I'd been there any other time, I would've missed it, but this rainbow was there. It was very bright, very vivid, and the water was this beautiful turquoise color. The whole scene, I was weeping because it was just so beautiful and I was so grateful for this moment of being told I'm cancer free, and spring is coming and nature is gifting me this experience.
It was. just a very beautiful moment where I felt really connected and in relationship with nature I went a little ways off the beach after the rainbow had faded and I sat with a cedar tree I pulled out my hair and it was really the first time I'd looked at it since losing it.
And I just sat with the hair and I just listened to it. I was like, [01:20:00] this is the last time I'm gonna see you. what do you wanna share with me for all of this? And so I really just felt into, that kind of embodied somatic intelligence of my body that had been shed. And just feeling, this profound gratitude for my hair and for this experience and for my body.
what I felt it was trying to tell me was that it was saying, you've made this sacrifice, which is symbolic in losing the hair. There's been this sacrifice, these depths that you've had to go through, but it's so you have your voice back again.
This is teaching you how to have your voice back. This is teaching you to get your power back. This is teaching you how to be strong and, this is an initiation and you've survived it. I'm holding the hair, listening to that and it's just coming through to me The body, this physical matter of my body, [01:21:00] my hair, my cells.
Like this is holy ground. it's holy ground. and I'm holding it. And I'm so grateful to have had this initiation and to have survived it. I'm just sitting there in gratitude for it. I put my hair in the earth. I had some herbs that I put with it, some herbs that are meaningful to me, meadow sweet, and a bit of mug wart and some juniper.
and, and I just buried it with the herbs and it felt complete. It felt like, yeah, you've done this. you've completed this. and the hair, was just symbolic of the sacrifice Of this experience to have come through it be reborn and step into the new life.
I feel like I was given another life. and really the overarching thing I'm left with is, tending to the body, you know, and that message of it being, the holy ground we get to walk around in and experience our lives. it's brought me back to that [01:22:00] very simple truth which is I have to take care of my body.
I'm gonna love myself so much that I'm gonna get strong and be here with my kids, most importantly, for as long as I can.
Dr. Erin Hayford: That's amazing. I'm so grateful for you. Not grateful that you had this experience, but I'm grateful for the medicine that came out of it.
not only is it obviously changing your life, but it's gonna change people's lives hearing this. Right. I mean it like cancer I think is one of those diag, like, it's everyone's worst nightmare, right? Like, it's like that word. Yeah. Just instantly instill fear in people and to hear someone go through what you went through you and I were messaging throughout your experience as well and immediately you were talking to me about what it was teaching you and how you had this mindset I was just, blown away,
'cause I think it's something that you can cultivate maybe in retrospect, but you were in the heart, in the belly of the beast and you had this clarity obviously not that it wasn't hard or that you didn't have fear. 'cause as you said, it was all there. But just to hear this, [01:23:00] deep wisdom, right?
And this is my wish for us that we can all, as human beings, feel the magic the power and the wisdom in that and know that it's there for all of us, whether we're sick or not. there's this deeper thread that is running through all of us, calling us into this deeper relationship with ourselves to inhabit our bodies fully in this way.
this is the gift of life. we have these bodies, these are our vessels, this is what we move through life in. they are the like canvas, you know, that like, it's, it's constantly just teaching us like how to be more us, how to be more ourselves, how to be more alive, how to be more human, how to be more here, and to take advantage of that because it's fleeting,
And yeah, I'm so grateful for you to share this with us the message here is so clear and so powerful. I'm so grateful that you survived and that now you can just, yeah.
Like be this medicine in the world. before you got sick, you were powerful and incredible I knew you before you got sick. I can't even imagine what's next, right? we're gonna have to [01:24:00] bring you back on here and do a little update in a while, I'm just so excited to see what the gift of this diagnosis is going to pull you, now that you've had this initiation opportunity, and you've been reborn in that sense, right?
what is this even gonna look like? Because you were already an amazing person. I can't wait to see what's next.
Robyn Watt: Thank you. I really received that. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your work. Like you said, your podcast in those early days.
I really needed to hear the wisdom of yourself and the guests you had on. everybody's walk with their illness, you know, 'cause we're all gonna have something in some way. it's just so important to have this focus on these deeper meanings of how they're transforming us,
Dr. Erin Hayford: Absolutely.
Robyn Watt: So really appreciate the space and thanks for letting me tell my story for the first time. It's been really wonderful.
Dr. Erin Hayford: Thank you so much. I'm honored to have been able to hold space for that, so thank you. Thank you for that.
Thank you for sharing it with us. And we'll catch up in a year and see [01:25:00] where you're at. Definitely
Robyn Watt: love to.
Dr. Erin Hayford: Okay. Thank you so much, Robyn.
Robyn Watt: Thank you.
